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why MUST God Election be based Upon his predetermined Will, and Not just Foreknowledg

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by JesusFan, May 31, 2011.

  1. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    Sure it does. Paul explain this when he writes, "God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished-- 26 he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus." (Rom 3)

    And also, "18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20 We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God." (2 Cor 5)

    As you can see from the emboldened words above, God didn't count men's sins against them and in his patience he left their sins unpunished. Thus, they were reconciled through the same means we are: faith. "Abraham believed and it was credited to him as righteousness."
     
  2. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    This does not answer the question I asked.God leaves no sin unpunished.
    That is not what the passage is teaching.
     
  3. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    Here is where "election" for us, the Gentiles comes in. The Jews of the OT were God's chosen(elected) people. But even in their "election", many died by the "way side" due to their unbelief. The atonement, when it was made, was made for ALL of Israel, and not just some. And though the atonement was for ALL of Israel, some died due to unbelief.

    Now here is a passage I read the other evening, that will seal the deal, or at least it does for me.

    Matt. 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

    43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

    44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

    45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

    46 But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.

    According to this passage, the Kingdom of God shall be taken from them. Well, if it was taken from them, then these very same Pharisees must have been included in it, until they reject Him. These very ones that Jesus told them this:

    John 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

    42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

    43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

    44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

    45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

    So "election" for us occurred when the Jews openly rejected Jesus, and God then "chose"(elected) us, the Gentiles, corparately. Election isn't on an individual basis, but the Gentiles were "elected"(chosen) due solely to the Jews unbelief.

    Acts 13:45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.

    46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

    47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

    Acts 18:5 And when Silas and Timotheus were come from Macedonia, Paul was pressed in the spirit, and testified to the Jews that Jesus was Christ.

    6 And when they opposed themselves, and blasphemed, he shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean; from henceforth I will go unto the Gentiles.

    7 And he departed thence, and entered into a certain man's house, named Justus, one that worshipped God, whose house joined hard to the synagogue.


    God gave the unbelieving Jews MANY chances to believe in Jesus, and they chose not to believe. And due to their rejection of Jesus, we were "chosen"(elected) corporately, as a "Gentile nation".

    i am I AM's!!

    Willis
     
  4. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    Then you may need to rephrase the question.

    In his forbearance had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished, but Christ pays for them on the cross.
     
  5. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    The wedding garment is Christs righteousness.... not human faith
     
  6. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Calvinists base the election upon the decree of God exercising His Will to supply/provide the means/way that those sinners He places in Christ shall indeed be saved by placing their Faith in Jesus... taht God Himself quockens them internally, renews their minds and hearts enabling them to place faith in Christ, and ALL those he so works upon/in will receive Christ and be saved...

    On what basis/grounds do Arminians rest the election of God upon?
     
  7. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    We are clothed in the righteousness of Christ through faith.
     
  8. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    Upon his divine pleasure and purpose....as explained in 2 Peter 3:9; John 3:16; 1 Tim 2:4 and elsewhere.
     
  9. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    just curious...

    Are you either a classical or Westlyn Arminian?

    And what would be major difference between those 2 arm camps ?
     
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