Why Sermons?

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Bugman, Jan 20, 2003.

  1. Bugman

    Bugman
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    Why do churches have sermons every Sunday morning by the pastor? When looking through the bible I can't find a justification for this. Peter preached on Pentacost becasue he was moved by the spirit, Paul preached in different towns he went to when establing churches, but I don't ever see a single person preaching every Sunday while people sat and listened. What I do see is belivers gathering together, discussing things, worshiping and teaching each other. The people who were teachers (pastors) answering questions the people where asking (teaching) are keeping them on the proper doctrine.Am I missing something here? Are we anywhere near what the church was like in the beginning or are we still locked in the Roman system to a large extent?

    Bryan
     
  2. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
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    "How, then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?
    And how shall they preach, except they be sent? As it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things."

    Romans 9:14-15

    [​IMG]

    Sue
     
  3. Helen

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    Hi Bugman,

    While I see what you are driving at, I do think that the size of churches has a great deal to do with it. It is really hard to get a hundred people, let alone a thousand, into a give-and-take conversation! This is probably best done by the small groups many churches have that meet on other nights of the week as they do their Bible studies.

    Another reason I can see is that most Christians don't read their Bibles. I honestly cannot fathom this, myself, for His Word is our spiritual food. All I can figure is that many -- the majority? -- of people attending the various Christian churches today are only nominal Christians and not born-again believers. Thus, they actually need the Scriptures read to them and a sermon regarding the connection of these Scriptures with other parts of the Word, so that the whole picture can gradually be presented.

    I'm sure others will have other answers for you, but those are two that came to my mind as I read your post.
     
  4. Dr. Bob

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    THAT is why I preach sermons each Sunday. Can't wait until next Sunday to do it again! :cool:
     
  5. Bugman

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    But Dr. Bob, isn't Paul talking about preaching those things to unbelievers? I understand the importance of preaching, but is it the Pastors job? I had always believed that the pastor is there to watch over a local group of believers. Paul makes it seemingly clear in 1 Corinthians 14:26 what should be done when believers gather together, and in churchs were a pastor gets up on Sunday and gives a sermon is this happening? He's teaching alright but Paul wasn't addressing that to just the Elders, but to the whole group of believers. Why don't we have each other getting up and teaching each other isntead of having the pastor do it every Sunday? In no way am I calling for disorder here, the Pastors are there to make sure everything is orderly and follows sound Biblical doctrine, but it jsut has occured to me of late that there is so much emphesis put on Pastors preaching on Sunday that really I can't find in the bible.

    One other thought here; Is it biblical to call a person to come and be pastor from outside of the Church? Does acts 14:23 not speak of picking the Elders from within the church? I find it odd that we go outside of the local congergation to find a pastor.

    Bryan
     
  6. HeDied4U

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    I agree with Helen and Dr. Bob. However, if you'd like to get an understanding of why we "do" church like we do today, instead of like it was done in the book of Acts, I would suggest you read 'The Open Church' by James H. Rutz. Or you can visit their website at http://www.openchurch.com/

    God Bless!!!

    Adam [​IMG]
     
  7. Bugman

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    Thats a good site. It put a lot of what I was thinking into words. I'm not willing to throw out sermons all together, but I think that some changes can definitly be made to how they are done, and how church meetings are set up.

    Bryan
     
  8. Artimaeus

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    Bugman, I think the problem is not so much what we do for an hour on Sunday morning as what we DON'T do the rest of the time. The early church got together everyday, it was their LIFE not just 3 hours a week. They took the time for each other and as a result they had plenty of opportunity for fellowship with each other, teaching each other, learning from each other, and sharing spitirual as well as physical needs.
    The first day of the week was special to them, See Acts 20:7 and I Cor 16:2. We aren't so much doing something different as doing something less.
     
  9. Abiyah

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    Bugman --

    Not everything is explicitly written in the Bible.
    When the people met in the synagogues or the
    Temple each Sabbath, someone read from the
    Law, then another was called up to read from
    the Prophets. After this, someone expounded
    the points made in the Law and how these related
    to the reading from the Prophets. This is not so
    much known from reading the Scriptures
    themselves but from history, and this is the
    practice that continued for years after our Lord
    was involved as a man.

    However, when our Lord was called up to read
    in the synagogue in Luke 4, we catch sight of this
    practice. It was His practice to attend synagogue,
    and that day, He attended in Nazareth. The people
    who wished to aliyah, or go up to read, let it be
    known that they were available.

    The Law had already been read, because He read
    from Isaiah--what is called the haftorah. He read
    the portion that had been chosen for the day, gave
    the scroll back to the shammash, and sat down.

    He was then expected to make His comments on
    the Scripture, because, as it says, everyone was
    looking at Him, waiting for His sermon. Part of His
    serrmon was, "Today this Scripture is fulfilled in
    your hearing," then He went on to enlarge upon
    this. We know this because the Bible says that the
    people were astounded and excited, with joy,
    because of what He told them.

    But when He continued His sermon, as happens
    many times in the synagogue, people don't like
    everything they hear. This time, the Bible says
    they were ALL furious with Him and they drove
    Him out of the town.

    In the synagogues then, just as today, the pre-
    chosen Scriptures are read, then someone gives
    the sermon. During the sermon, people make
    comments, ask questions, request clarification,
    etc. These can be very lively discussions, and
    on occasion, as in this case in Luke, tempers can
    flair.

    At my synagogue recently, the sermon barely
    touched upon what we call "lashon hara"--evil
    speech, or gossip. One man became upset and
    accused the pastors of using lashon hara
    because they had taken a stand against a
    particular sin. This became a heated discussion,
    probably not unlike that here in Luke. Rather
    than driving the speaker out, however, we lost
    some in our congregation as those of us who did
    not want this particular sin coddled firmly backed
    our pastors, and the others walked away. We
    miss these people terribly, thinking of them fondly
    and often, but the integrity of the group must be
    maintained.
     
  10. D.R.

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    Bugman,

    I understand your viewpoint, for I have stuggled with the place of preaching in worship. Because of that, I believe that preaching should be done in the beginning of worship so that what is preached can be reflected on in other parts of worship such as prayer and singing. But I think we have gotten away from "God-glorifying" preaching and moved to "man-centered" preaching, which is horrible in my opinion. If we would get back to preaching about the glory of God and His character and Being, then we would see it as a more integral part of worship. There is way too much political agenda in preaching. But that is a different thread. If you want to learn more about God-glorifying preaching, listen to John Piper's three sermons on SermonAudio.com. You will have to do a search for John Piper on the site, but those three sermons might spark a renewal in your view of preaching as worship. You can also go to his website, www.desiringgod.org to see how he does it himself. Hope this helps,
    WE HOLLA
    dr
     
  11. sodzei

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    I agree with D.R. and Bugman about the sermon. Everything in most baptist churches focuses around the sermon. "let's hurry up and get through these songs so we can get to the message!"

    It seems to me that our primary function as people... and as a church is to worship God. Preaching the Bible is one aspect of worship. We must get away from the message being the "main event." True learning takes place in small groups or in one on one situations. The purpose of the sermon should be worship.
     
  12. Lorelei

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    This is exactly how I feel when I go to church! I go to hear the apostles teachings. That is why the early church gathered, they were committed to the apostles teachings. I want to hear the Word, I think we are edified when God's Word is spoken.

    Now granted, I just recently left my church because I was tired of hearing "sermons". I want to hear the Word, not how some person did something that makes you want to cry, but is supposed to help you relate better to what the Bible says.

    I want solid teaching from the Word. Where I am visiting now that is what I get, but I can't wait to get to it. So hurry up with the songs, I want to hear the Word!

    Worship isn't what we do in church, this is worship.

    We gather at church for the edification of the body, to serve others and dedicate ourselves to the apostles teachings.

    ~Lorelei
     
  13. nehemiah

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    Just want to say a big ol' "AMEN" to the words of Dr. Bob. It is God's choice to make the preaching of His word the centerpiece of His services, and preaching of the word is by no means for sinners only. The church was given apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers for the purpose of perfecting the saints, for performing the services of ministry, and for edifying the body of Christ. What did all these types of minstries have in common? The preaching of the word...that declaration of Jesus Christ, and Him crucified. While the age of apostles is probably past, and 'prpphet' can be a matter of definition, the church of today is abundantly blessed with evangelists and pastors and teachers who are touched by the Holy Spirit for the purpose of delivering the Word of the Living God. That Word, that message, is what Christianity is all about. It was, it is, and it shall always be God's truth...."Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God." Not just the faith to believe unto salvation, but the faith to persevere, the faith to step out into the deep waters of ministry, the faith for deliverance, the faith for healing; the faith that makes a believer a true believer. That's why pastors preach every Sunday. That's why a preacher or a teacher of the Gospel can't wait for the next opportunity to deliver what God has given to him. We know that we will deliver words that can change lives.

    Now, the idea of a group of believers gathering together and each speaking in turn, as the Spirit leads, is appealling, in its way, and far from a new thing. Our Menonite and Amish friends have been practising this for years. But isn't it written somewhere that not all are preachers, not all are prophets? Yet no one part of the body is less significant than another. I think it best to trust those whom God has entrusted to deliver His word.

    Aoncerning the idea that the message must no longer be the center of the service....there are churches all around us who have done just that. Believe me, I love the praise and worship ministry. My wife is involved as a worship leader, and lately I've been helping with her ministry. We feel that our job is to set the stage, so to speak, for the preaching of the Word. But I'm seeing more and more instances where churches and worship teams are insisting on more music, and less talk. Maybe intentions are good. I can't say. But when it gets to be all music than preaching I have to think it's hardly a service at all. More like a concert. Give me more word.

    Just a thought.
     
  14. D.R.

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    My post was not an advertisement for no longer making the sermon the centerpiece of worship, but to build the service around the sermon in such a way that it does become worship. I believe that the sermon should not be the centerpiece if it does not bring us into a higher form of worship. However, my belief is that that is exactly the role it should play and pastors and worship leaders should work together to make this happen. In my church, where the sermon is closer to the beginning, it is used as a means of interacting with the worhsipper and confronting him or her with truth that needs to be reflected on in the remainder of the service. Think about it. Why would you preach about the glory of God in Isaiah 6 and not give the people an opportunity to stand in awe of God through silent prayer, meditation and praise and worship afterwards. Simply saying Amen after the sermon on this and giving an invitation doesn't help to make the sermon stick and doesn't give the people the opportunity to react to what they just heard. Hence, what I am saying is, make the sermon the centerpiece of worship, but only insomuch as it drives the worshippers to truth that will be life changing during worship. I hope you see more clearly what I am saying. Again, check out those sermons on Sermon Audio.com by John Piper. I think you will see more clearly what I am advocating.
    WE HOLLA
    dr
     
  15. donnA

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    The bible tells us they sang hymns and listened to the 'preaching'. So thats why we have it.
     
  16. rufus

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  17. rufus

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    Great Posts!

    The Great Commission has three parts: (1)preach, (2)immerse, and (3) teach.

    We preach to the lost and teach the saved.

    That's why I preach sermons: preaching-teaching.

    rufus [​IMG]
     
  18. christine

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    I just came across that website (sermon.com) last night. I was amazed! I thought maybe it was a way for people to go to hear or read a sermon, maybe homebound or someone who could not go to church. WOW!! It is a site for preachers to buy sermons to use at church. I'm dumbfounded. Maybe I've been out of the church too long, I just never imagined. How can a preacher be spoken to by God to preach on a subject and then use a "cheat sheet" to do it. It seems like boxed macaroni and cheese, or ordering pizza. Are preachers really using someone else's sermons or are they "making them from scratch" thru God's direction. Just imagine a huge binder filled with sermons and little tabs indicating "christmas sermon" or "funeral sermon".
    In the bible it say's to surround yourselves with goodness and like minded believers. I believe sermon's and church on Sundays, are meant to give us support and guildance. Sometimes we know the truth, but someone needs to point it out to us. Often, because we are human, we need to someone to kick us in the butt and say "you are doing wrong!" Maybe even tell us when we are doing right.
     
  19. D.R.

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    Yes Christine,

    There is a Sermon Clause. Pastors do often go online or use pre-cooked sermons as a substitute or just a supliment for their preaching. This has become of late a great controversy in preaching. I tell my students not to do it. I do not use them myself, though I do draw from other's sermons. I do not think getting ideas from sources is wrong, but to not do the research and to preach those pre-cooked sermons I believe, is unethical, especially if the pastor does not site his source of information. Also, it seems to me that one cannot own a sermon that is taken from a study that the person did not do. Most people that I know do not use these ready-made sermons and their preaching is powerful and informing. The life of a pastor is shaped in his study, as well as in his prayer closet and pulpit. I think to take from others and skip the study is to do an injustice to oneself in regard to personal growth. But I believe I will be in the minority, which I feel is sad.
    DR
     
  20. Christian41974

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    I enjoy preaching. It's what I need. It's good for me to hear someone get up and let his ears hang back and just preach! Some have substituted so-called "worship" for it with worldly music and the have left off the old way. Some don't have preaching every Sunday; they have a little sermonette to tickle the ear and make them feel allright. I heard one preacher say some churches don't grow they just swell. I do not understand why anyone would want less preaching if anything we probably need more Bible preaching. It will grow you and at times tear your hide which is just fine.
     

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