Why should I...?

Given your stated purpose, I would suggest an online discussion forum not to be the best place for you to define things. Like you said, you want to learn from those who are educated. Then look to men whom God has called to preach, who hold a good testimony in Christ, that hold those doctrines.

But also look to men who finished well, like a Spurgeon, and see how they understood the Scriptures. I would recommend, for example, Sprugeon's sermon on election.

 

Sorry,brother, you started this when you ignored the rules. You can't have it both ways. You can't fail to list Baptist as your denomination in your profile and still post in the Baptist-only sections. You are either Baptist or you're not, and what you put in your profile is what counts.

While the moderator may move this thread, you should have started it in the Other Christian Denominations section yourself.

John Toppass and annsi are well within their rights to question your right to post in this section. And they are being helpful to you by pointing you in the right direction regarding the rules.

 

This thread has been moved from General Discussions forum because the OP does not list any denomination in his profile and is not titled to post in Baptist Only forums.

Blackbird
Moderator

 

I agree - highly recommended. Here is the link to the sermon from my friend - http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0041.htm

 

You should not be a Calvinist because scripture flatly contradicts the "arbitrary selection" doctrine of Calvinism sometimes masked with the term "unconditional election".

You should not be a Calvinist because the Bible argues the case for "Whosoever will" instead of "whosoever's brain God just so happens to zap".

You should not be a Calvinist because God offers salvation to all -

"God so Loved the World that He gave..." John 3:16

"God is not willing for any to perish" 2Peter 3

"God draws ALL men" unto him - John 12:32.

"Christ is the Atoning Sacrifice for OUR sins and not for OUR sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE World" 1John 2:2.

"The Spirit of truth convicts the WORLD of sin and righteousness and judgment" John 16:8-12.

God is the first cause.

God's statement "I will draw ALL men unto Me" as the primary cause. John 12:32


John 1 "He is the light that coming into the World enlightens EVERY man" John 1:9

the Rev 3 fact "I stand at the door and knock if ANYONE hears my voice AND OPENS the door I will come in ".

God's First cause act in 1John 2:2" He is the Atoning Sacrifice for our sins and not for our sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD"

God's first cause act in 1John 4:14 "the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"

in Christ,

Bob

 

Bob,

I could and would go down through each verse and show how either they are taken out of context, do not contradict our teachings, or how the Greek substantiates our view. However, I seem to think you have not read our own books and have taken these from people from your own point of view. Seriously, you really cannot quote Revelation 3 as a salvation verse and you seriously cannot believe that God enlightens every single person? No, Revelation 3 is written to God's church and every single person is not enlightened.

I would invite you to actually read what we believe from our own authors. I recommended Lorraine Boetner's book, "Reformed Doctrine of Predestination." YOu can find it here:

www.prclodi.com/storage/text-docs/predest.pdf

 

Bob really does not care about careful exegesis or even expository common sense. He only cares about defending his position regardless of contrary evidence. I have yet to see him do a careful expository development of any passage that contradicts his position. Exposition means you must follow the contextual line of thinking and development and how verses and words relate to each other in the development of thought. From my observation point this is totally absent in his writings. He is more like a J.W. who jumps from text to text and pits scripture against scripture.

 

We believe "Calvinism" not out of team spirit so to speak, but because we find it in the Bible. We teach it because we believe it is the Gospel in its purest, clearest and most dynamic form. As Spurgeon stated -- “I have my own private opinion that there is not such a thing as preaching Christ and Him crucified, unless we preach what nowadays is called Calvinism. It is a nickname to it Calvinism; Calvinism is the Gospel, and nothing else.”

In summary, God owes fallen rebellious humanity absolutely nothing. Indeed, the wage of sin is death. With perfect justice, He could damn the entire human race. Yet, He chooses to save some, but not all. What is the basis for this decision? Is it on the basis of our good works or foreseen faith? No. In the Scriptures we see that God chose us in the beginning, before the foundation of the world, even recording our names in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world.

So why do we come to Christ? Not because we choose Him, but because He first chose us. Not because we love Him, but because He first loved us. Not even because of our faith, for even that is a gift which he gives to us.

God is the author of our salvation. In the truest sense, "salvation is of the Lord."

 

God being the Only God and Creator of all things owes no one anything.

This is true,

however,

because God set Adam up to fail He also obligated Himself to provide an Atonement to restore him.

Of course this was all planned before the foundation of the world was ever laid.

But back to the OP. Mindsleeve wants to know what the advantage is to being a Calvinist? Does it make you feel more holy? Does it make you feel more generous, or more loving, or whatever?

In other words, whats the point?

And the "because it is the word of God" answer means nothing to us who love the word of God just as much as a Calvinist.

BTW, I am like mindsleeve in the sense that I am very open to hearing from Calvinist on this, for I can somewhat understand Calvin's points even though I have not committed myself to embracing them.

So why should I believe Calvin? Again, don't give me the "it's the word of God" talking point.

 

God set Adam up to fail is not exactly a god-honoring or biblical construct.

You belive that God is not obligated to anyone yet here you say that He has obligated Himself to provide atonement. God was under absolutely no obligation to save anyone. Out of His grace and mercy He has provided redemption.

Calvin did not come up with the points or five propositions. You should know that.

Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. Calvin is only a spokesman of the Lord.

 

Why not?

God is sovereign and has done many things that unregenerated human beings would call "ungodly" for His own good reasons and purposes.

Why do you think God put the forbidden tree in Adam's reach knowing full well Adam would disobey and partake?

God obligated Himself before He ever created a single human being. So yes, He is obligated unless He be found a liar.

Yes, God did. I already heard that reasoning.

Re-read my quote. I never said believe "in" Calvin.

 

I assume you are not talking about the secret handshakes or the annual pilgrimage to Geneva.

I would suggest Steve Brown's book "If God is in Charge." Interesting reading. Steve Brown is a seminary professor and a former pastor (for over 20 years). He also hosts Key Life, a daily radio program.

 

Most Reformed people have not read Calvin. Reformed theology deviates from Calvin's writing. Dutch reformed theology is closer to Calvin than the Presbyterian interpretation.

 

God did not tempt Adam as James points out.

So...

Why do you think God put the forbidden tree in Adam's reach knowing full well Adam would disobey and partake?