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Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Sherrie, May 19, 2003.
Why should there be joy in tribulation?
Because trials produce steadfastness and steadfastness develops Christian maturity in the believer. Those who remain steadfast in the midst of trials will receive the crown of life. These reminders are found in James 1:2-4 and 12.
There is joy in being found within God's will, regardless of the circumstances.
It's a command from the almighty. John 16:33
I find joy in tribulation because it is then that I can totally depend on God for his provision in that time.
When God carries me through or pulls me out of the situation, I can genuinely praise Him.
When times of tribulation come, I normally wonder "woa is me" and "why does this happen to me, I'm a good Christian?". I admit that this is a weakness. As I'm growing, I've learned to say, "God you know what I'm facing and I trust you to provide for me by sustaining me or rescuing me". He always has met that need and I rejoice when I look back and see His involvement in the situation!
Becasue God is activce in your life, intribulation you can actually watch Him move and work in you adn your life.
Romans 5 1:5
1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
Because tribulation makes us focus on the eternal things, and when the "things not seen" are real to you, that's what joy is. I don't think joy (in the scriptural sense) is the same thing as happiness, but rather it is a deep longing and expectancy and assurance of the eternal.
It's sort of a circular thing, I think. You start by suffering tribulation, and that tribulation sets your sights on the eternal, and having you sights set on the eternal in turn helps you endure in tribulation.
When I first came to read the bible, I read Romans Chapter 5 and I wondered how a person could be greatly happy in all their misery.
Sometimes the pressures in life can be so distressful to some, that some will commit suicide, or do foolish things, that later do cause severe consequences. Perhaps even reach out for something to hide in, rather than the Lord.
I am glad that in my maturity with the Lord, that when I go through these tribulation and trials, that if I look to him; I only see him.
I also noticed as I grew in my relationship with Him, I became more and more humble (and still yet), and I then begin to realize that peace and grace are priviledges from our Lord.
Then when I read chapter 6, I realized God designs our Joy, and enables us to be thankful.
And so I knew then, and I know now...no matter what....God has a plan.
He created me for His pleasure, He gave His Son for me, and he designed Joy for me.
There is Joy in being His willing Servant. When we serve God, and look to him, we are not seeing the negetivity that an unbeliever sees, but we are seeing the Hope of eternity that God has provided or enabled for us.
Hope that makes sense...I hope I was not rattling.
The perspective is to keep your eyes on the prize. For believers, this present world is Hell, all the Hell we will ever know. For unbelievers, this present world is Heaven, all the Heaven they will ever know, unless they come to know Christ as Savior. Some say "that fellow is so heavenly minded he is no earthly good." The Truth is, that the more heavenly minded the person, the more good he or she is for the kingdom of God.
Sherrie, where are you getting this concept from? I certainly do not have/feel "joy" when troubles come.
Now I know I am commanded to re-joice in the Lord always and I do. (Phil 4:4)
I know that I am to boast/glory of a great God who will do great things in spite and through all the tribulation. (Romans 5:3)
But is there a verse I'm missing here? Where does it say "joy" and "tribulation" in a verse?
Thanks. It will help the discussion!
When I read this it says Christ died for us. Hope gives us the assuredness that God will complete or fulfill His promise of his saving works. As, Christians, with the gift of love in our hearts; tribulations will take place.
But because of this, our lives are centered on Christ, and we are protected by this, because all our hope is found in Him. So we shouldn't allow tribulations to disappoint us, but rather we should know our Lord will take care of us.
And this is why I asked. Doesn't Boast mean to glorify.
And if I am rejoicing, or having joy in the Lord, or Boasting in the Lord, will not my tribulation or trials be less? Not to say there wont be tribulation, but I will be focused on the Lord.
I wonder...did I go to deep on this? Did I see more than was really there? Now I am confused. See thats why I asked.
I think it is really good you DID ask.
Glory = boast, vaunt. It can be from a bad, prideful sense or from a good, godly sense. So Paul is using the latter (we assume) and sharing all the tribulations he has experienced as a cause to boast in God.
He was not ashamed. He had experience-based hope -- knowing that the bad things (tribulation) would all work out to God's glory.
Just not so sure our modern concept of "happiness" and "rejoicing" fits in the equation anywhere. (That's what most people would think of when they see the word "joy").
Dr. Bob I am not ignoring your post, I have to go back, and read those chapters again, and think this out. Thank you, I think I understand maybe...
I wonder then...
Paul is saying I was so vile and nasty...That inspite of this; Jesus took those sins, and covered me, that I could have a relationship with my father. This is the rejoicing. Also an unbeliever could not have that rejoicing because they were not saved yet.
That would be the boasting...Jesus saved me from my sins..and I have hope.
I think the better question would be: why should we REJOICE in tribulations?
Happiness and joy are different things. Joy is deeper -- it's a sureness that Christ is totally in control and that we needn't think our pain is useless, or worthless. We needn't panic.
Happiness is the surface bubbles that we all enjoy so much. Joy doesn't always end up on the surface with bubbles, but it is always there as a quiet sureness for the Christian.
To respond to Keeper here -- you are right about the question...
When times are good, we don't grow. We rest. We have a chance to breathe and enjoy the moments without the pressure of pain or worry or imminent catastrophe!
But God's purpose for us is not for us to rest, but to be conformed to the image of His Son. And to that end He MUST jerk us out of our happy resting spots and onto the path again. And it means we will be pruned, disciplined, trained....and matured in Christ.
We are allowed to pause and rest and have those great moments of sunshine and cool breezes and laughter. They are for our refreshment. But we are not allowed to stay there, for His Word promises that He will be faithful to complete the good work He has begun in us (Phil. 1:6). Would we really want it any different?
We know that He will not permit any pain or discomfort in our lives which is not used by Him to help us along our way (Romans 8:28). And that is why we can not be happy when the hard times come, but we can rejoice with that quiet and sure joy inside, knowing that He is about His work again and we are being trained and raised up a little more again.
And we can rejoice knowing it is for a short time only. And that heaven is forever. There's no more pain or tears or sorrow there; but for right now, they are some of the tools which not only remind us daily of the horror of sin, but which He also uses to help shape us into that image of Christ Himself, who also went through rejection, mocking, scorn, beatings, and a horrid and painful death.
But, as we are with Him in death, we are also with Him in the resurrection. After the cross comes the glory.
We can do that! He's with us every step of the way!