Why so many unfounded attacks on Calvinism?

Ah, but if you turn one over it will quickly reveal how crooked at least one of them is. That is the way I was taught by the master to make a stick straight without the use of a straight edge.

And to think that people actually listen to them!

I could not agree more. That is the reason why we must study the Bible in light of its historical context. Too many Bible studies are led by the question, "What does it mean to you?" It has nothing to do with what it means to me but rather what it does mean.

Too many Bible studies are personalized in terms of interpretation rather than the correct interpretation and then apply the passage considering the passage's historical context.

 

I saw an eight-point last month, but he got spooked and ran before I could get my scope on him.

Arminianism is the belief in general redemption as opposed to the doctrine of particular redemption. Arminius himself never affirmed the doctrine of conditional security, although he suggested that it might be so.

Oh, please tell me that the limit is drawing near . . .

Scared me so bad, I nearly backed out of writing this.

 

I'm hesitant to call non-Cal Baptists Arminian, because most Baptists do not believe one can lose his salvation.

Just as most Calvinists would not call them followers of Calvin, not all Arminians would call themselves followers of Arminius.

When a Baptist calls someone an Arminian, usually he means one who believes salvation can be lost. That may not be an accurate description, but that's what he means.

 

I have said it before and I will say it again. People are biased against the word Calvinism and, therefore, they will read anything discussing Calvinism from a biased viewpoint. I am not a Calvinist. Calvin held many doctrines which I cannot accept such as his view on the Lord's Supper and infant Baptism.

I believe in the Sovereignty of God in the Salvation of His Elect. Some people have called this the Doctrines of Grace which sounds better than Calvinism.

 

Just because I refuse to accept it as you have doesn't mean I'm affraid of it. It means I don't find it to be according to scripture. Why do I hate it? Well I believe it is contradictive to scripture and there fore is just another part of the world. We are told in scripture to separate ourselves from the world. To not be a part of it.
Why do you hate any teaching that rejects Calvinism? Why do you hate it when you're challenged to prove your point of view? Why do you take it personally when people try to show you the truth? Isn't it the same reason.

MB

 

What I find interesting is that on the BB I have encountered two calvinists who do not believe that God created evil. The problem I have with their theology is that scripture states that God did create evil. They wrote before they even took a look at a concordance. Just shows how much they do not believe in the sovereignty of God. Apaprently they believe in the limited sovereignty of God too.

 

FTR, I am not a Calvinist. Apparently you are since you believe God created evil? Although, this is off the OP with this God created evil suggestion. Regardless, the scripture says no such thing as I demonstarted earlier in this tread, and it has nothing to do with limiting God's sovereignty to understand that God did not create evil. Where have you been??? This has been debated here countless times!

The Determinist must hold to God being the creator of evil and/or the author of sin to hold their man-made position is all. The inclination that God created evil is a force to fit doctrine of necessity which goes against your prior lecture to me about following man rather than the scriptures.

 

To say that God did not create evil is to go directly against what scripture directly addresses and God inspired. It also goes against God's sovereignty because to make the false assumption that God did not create evil when he did, openly declares that God is a liar and to declare that God is not sovereign in all he declares and in the totality of His work is to limit God.

To fully understand the fact that God created evil, you must understand the difference between a Greek understanding (which you possess) and a Jewish mindset you must study how the Jews thought.

Since God created everything that includes everything.

It does matter what I hold to or believe. What matters is that the Bible directly says it. Use an concordance and you will see that God did create evil. If you believe what your Bible declares directly then you will believe that God created evil.

How are Amos 3:6 and Lamentations 3:38 to be interpreted?

 

IMO, you possess a man made Determinist view which can only logically result in fatalism. That said, I clearly used a concordance in my rebuttal of your earlier faulty interpretation of the meaning in Isa 45:7. Further, I have no intention to keep on doing exegesis of scripture for you,(which in this case you use as a circular smokescreen while misplacing the burden of proof); being I have already thoroughly refuted your former proof text without your responses and I’m not going to engage in your rabbit chasing form of debate. (You have done little more with the above reply than neglect your mistake I pointed out earlier and continuance in an arrogant ad hominem fashion.) Ihave also addressed the Divine nature of God, which IS ALSO Truth, through Deut 32:4, in detail, again with no response. So what I do understand is your apparent need to use fallacious, Ad hominem, condescending lecture tactics; and that it is not me that needs to come to understanding the origin of his position, or is “openly declaring God a liar”, or disregarding the truth of scripture to hold to a man made doctrine.

Your utter avoidance of my other direct response to you about, "where you have been??? (concerning the tired accusation of limiting God’s sovereignty) by continuing to create this red herring and still trying to smokescreen this issue of God creating evil with a circular debate over Divine sovereignty amongst your other tactics is a non-sensible form of debate that this board is all to familiar with…and the style is not only laughable, but plain unedifying foolery.

 

Did you not read what I wrote and you have no rebuttal other than personal attacks? Can you not write a rebuttal with some reasonable arguments or facts? If you have a rebuttal from scripture I will be glad to read it. However I am quite confident on this issue partly because I have had the same discussion with a few professors at SWBTS and they all agree with me.

There are two reasons why you it is impossible for you to try and determine what God said. One is you come with an attitude of a refusal to learn and the other is simply because you do not understand the culture in which those passages were written. Throw away your Greek philosophical mindset and introduce yourself to the Jewish mindset then you will understand fully what God has said. It has absolutely nothing to do with determinism. Once you do that then you will quickly understand why you were so blind.

I am trying to explain what the scripture teaches not argue with you. There is no point arguing with you because you do not understand the historical and cultural background of those passages. Until you do then you will not realize what is actually said. It is not anything like what you think in your Greek understanding.

When you realize how the Greeks thought then you will see yourself. When you realize how the Jews thought then you will realize how far off you are.

When you get done studying the Jewish culture and the Hebrew text of those passages let me know then we can have a further discussion.

 

That's a hoot and a half.I'd like you to try and explain how the scriptural doctrine of the total depravity of man is a worldly doctrine.Are people of the world are running with itching ears to herar about how bad they are?! Come off it.
The same applies to the other distinctive doctrines that Calvinists stand for.

O MB, great fountainhead of wisdom, we seek your counsel,guidance and unusual slant on the "truth".

 

or is that slant on unusual truth?

There are unfounded attacks simply because they are unfounded.

Cheers,

Jim

 

All I hear from you is how educated you are and how blind I and lacking in understanding I am, then you say I use personal attacks when I point it out to you with your red herrings while still avoiding your mis-interpretation of Isa 45:7 as a proof text.

Try clicking on the quote button at the bottom of post #16 and addressing that (Isa 45:7) rather than explaining to me how unworthy I am to comprehend scriptual understandings.