Why so much against KJB-only?

Skanwmatos, Brian, or anyone else-Do you think that the "42" in 2 Chron.22:2 could've been a "typo" by the writer of the ms? After all, this reading has been around for thousands of years, and has not gone unnoticed by the various copyists and translators. Its discussion didn't originate HERE. I believe that any attempt to reconcile this reading with the timeline of Omri's dynasty is trying to drive a square peg into a round hole.

 

No. I believe in infallible inspiration. The penmen produced inerrant original manuscripts. We see evidence that scribal errors do tend to creep in during the copying process, but when every single Hebrew manuscript in existence reads exactly the same, we have no reason to doubt it. If we don't understand it, or think it contradicts another passage, the problem is with our own reason and knowledge, not with the word of God.

I provided a perfectly viable alternate to the "God's word is wrong" theory. If you don't like that alternative, fine, but quite frankly I think it is far superior to the "God's word is wrong" theory.

 

Skanwmatos:I provided a perfectly viable alternate to the "God's word is wrong" theory. If you don't like that alternative, fine, but quite frankly I think it is far superior to the "God's word is wrong" theory.

It's not a matter of liking the alternative or not; it's that it has no corroborating Scriptural support at all. And one Scripture says he was 22 while another says 42, which makes no sense at all. We must bear in mind that the historical accounts don't have any "Thus saith the Lord"s in their narrative, and although God influenced these men to write, they still wrote the events either as each of them witnessed them or as they were told second-hand. It was quite possible for one of them to have made a booboo.

 

Unless, of course, you read where Omri reigned 12 years, Ahab 22, and Joram 8, and do a little simple addition.

Unless you read the rest of the accounts of the Kings.

And that, my friend, is a classic denial of verbal and plenary inspiration, and is heterodox in the extreme.

 

Man, Skan, you just jump on everybody!

Cranston, I agree with Skan, but I'll jump to your defense all the same.

 

No, I don't. I "jump on" error, not people. You see, I "jump on" Robycop's statement which essentially denies the historic orthodox position of verbal and plenary inspiration, and I "jump on" KJVOs statements which are equally egregious error. But, for some odd reason, the KJVOs attack me, claim I am not as spiritual as they, claim I am not a "bible believer," claim I hold them to a higher standard than I do the bible, and other equally foolish claims. At least Robycop doesn't do that, must to his credit. Unfortunately I cannot say the same for many of the KJVOs on this forum.

 

Sorry you're so misunderstood, welcome to the club, wanna take my place as president?

What you describe is on both sides part in this debate, but let me get back on that word "egregious", man i'm not even sure that's English? So I guess you can tell I'm not spritual enough to interpet speaking in tongues either?

 

You were speaking in tongues, minus the "o" and you're speaking Latin. Did you dig anybody up to give you that word? Now if you had said "Gregarious", which i was thinking you meant, then I wouldn't have had to pull out the dictionary. "Tongues" get it?

 

I am sorry. I did not mean to confuse you with big words you don't understand. Egregious means "conspicuously bad or offensive."

 

O.K., so don't confuse me with big words I do understand too, then!

 

Peace and love to you all in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour!

Brian T,


Michelle quote:
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Example: the NIV omitts: in Matthew 6:13 "For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever, Amen.

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Brian T Quote:

How do you know this was omitted? How do you know it wasn't *added* early in the line of majority manuscripts?

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I know by faith in the very promise from God that he would preserve his word forever and the fact that Jesus Christ is the Word of God:

Psalm 12:1-8
1 Help, Lord; for the godly man ceaseth; for the faithful fail from among the children of men.
2 They speak vanity every one with his neighbor: with flattering lips and with a double heart do they speak.
3 The LORD shall cut off all flattering lips, and the tongue that speaketh proud things:
4 Who have said, With our tongue will we prevail; our lips are our own: who is lord over us?
5 For the oppression of the poor, for the sighing of the needy, now will I arise, saith the LORD; I will set him in safety from him that puffeth at him.
6 The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
8 The wicked walk on every side, when the vilest men are exalted.

and...

Matthew 4:3-4
3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made of bread.
4 But he answered and said, It is written, MAN SHALL NOT LIVE BY BREAD ALONE, BUT BY EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDETH OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD.

and....

Deuteronomy 8:3

3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.

Revelation 22:6-7,18-19
6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to show unto his servents the things which must shortly be done.
7 Behold, I come quickly: Blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophesy of this book.

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of this book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Now, let me ask you something. Is the Holy Bible, that is every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God, and to which God has said he would preserve forever, the book that our Lord is referring to in this passage? Isn't the spirit of prophecy the testimony of Jesus Christ? Isn't the testimony of Jesus Christ the word of God?

John 1:1,14

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God....
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,)full of grace and truth.

Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

Concerning matthew 6:13, John Gill has this to say, "For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever, Amen. This conclusion is left out in the Arabic and Vulgate Latin versions, as it is in #Lu 11:4. It stands thus in the Jewish prayers {d},

“ayh Klv twklmh yk, "for the kingdom is thine", and thou shalt reign in glory for ever and ever.”

The usual response at the close of prayers, and reading the Shema, instead of "Amen", was {e} this:

“Blessed be the name of the glory of his kingdom, for ever and ever.”

Which bears some resemblance to this concluding expression, which ascribes everlasting kingdom, power, and glory, to God: which may be considered either as a doxology, or an ascription of glory to God, which is his due; and ought be given him in all our prayers to him; or as so many reasons strengthening our faith in prayer; or as many arguments with God, with respect to the petitions made; since the kingdom of nature, providence, grace, and glory, is his: he is omnipotent, he has power to give us our daily bread; to forgive our sins; to preserve from, support under, and deliver out of temptation; to keep from all evil, and preserve from a total and final falling away: whose glory is concerned in all, to whom the glory of all is, and to whom it must, and shall be given; and all this for ever: and the whole is concluded with the word "Amen"; which is a note of asseveration, of the truth herein contained; is added by way of assent to every petition made; is expressive of an hearty wish, and desire to have all fulfilled; and also of faith and confidence, that they will be answered. And this word being retained, and kept the same in all languages, signifies the unity of the spirit, and faith in prayer, in all the saints, in all ages. I leave this prayer with one observation, and that is, whereas it has been so long, and so often said, that this is the Lord’s prayer, it can never be proved that he ever made use of it; and it is certain that he did not make it, as appears from what has been cited out of the Jewish records: the several petitions in it were in being and use before he directed to them; and not only the petitions, but even the very preface and conclusion, are manifestly of Jewish original: what our Lord did was, he took the most proper and pertinent petitions, that had been used by good men among that people; which, with some alterations much for the better, he put together in this order, and gave his approbation of; and that with this view, to point out to his disciples some of the best and most suitable petitions to be made; and to give them a pattern of brevity and conciseness in prayer; and teach them to pray after such a manner, or in some such like words and expressions. This I observe, not to lessen the usefulness of this excellent pattern of sound words; the whole, and every part of it, being exceedingly instructive, and worthy of imitation; but to rectify a vulgar mistake, and to abate the formal and superstitious observance of it.

{a} Seder Tephillot, fol. 3. 1. Ed. Basil. fol. 4. 2. Ed. Amstelod. Shaare Zion, fol. 73. 1. T. Bab. Beracot, fol. 60. 2.
{b} T. Bab. Beracot, fol. 60. 2.
{c} Ib. fol. 16. 2.
{d} Seder Tephillot, fol. 280. 1. Ed. Basil.
{e} Misn. Yoma, c. 4. sect. 1. & 6. 2. T. Bab. Pesachim, fol. 56. 1. & Taanith, fol. 16. 2. Seder Tephillot, fol. 70. 2. Ed. Basil. "

Seems it is indeterminate to see whether this was in every MSS and it would be a "red herring" to try and push the issue farther than that, BUT, it is common sense that the Jewish Messiah/ Jesus Christ, would certainly use this phrase in His example to other Jews on how to pray to their Father in Heaven. Who would ever think that this inclusion would be looked down upon for the lack of some available MSS to support it.

Makes one wonder why the objection of it's inclusion, especially when it's His Kingdom, His Power and His Glory we're talking about.

Good reply Sister Michelle!

 

Peace and love to you in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour!

Ephesians 6:10-18

10 Finally, my bretheren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with the truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16 Above all, taking the sheild of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverence and supplication for all saints;

So God is telling us to armour ourselves with the whole armour of God, which is truth, righteousness, faith, salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. This is to keep us from the evil day and the fiery darts of the wicked. How can we have all these things, if we rely upon the whole armour of God, if part of that armour has been taken away/weakened? How then will we stand against the wiles of the devil? How will we be able to quench the fiery darts of the wicked? How will we be able to withstand in the evil day? How are we standing in his power and his might? How are we to prepare our feet with the gospel of peace, if that very gospel has been tampered with? These are the dangers of the modern versions that have added to/deleted from the preserved word of God.

Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

A-Men!

I sent you a PM in regards to your email.

 

Peace and love to you all in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour!

Hi there Brother Ricky!

I did read your email. Thanks so much! I too as a child would see the stars in the sky and know that there was a God. Thanks for the advice regarding my husband. I also really enjoyed reading your last post. I wasn't aware of this and find it wonderful that I have learned something new. Thank you for that. I do have a book about the jewishness of the Lord's Prayer, but I have not yet read it. This has encouraged me to read it.

May the Lord continue to richly bless you and your family.

love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle