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Why Sunday can NOT be the Lord's Day

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by wopik, Oct 21, 2004.

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  1. wopik

    wopik New Member

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    In the NT book of Revelation -(14:7), John says he saw an angel (or messenger) saying, “with a loud voice, ‘Fear God and give glory to him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of water. ’ ”

    Now there is only one commandment, which tells us - and indeed was given to remind us - who created the heavens, the earth, and the sea, and the fountains of water.

    That commandment is the seventh day Sabbath of the fourth commandment, “Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy....for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea...” (Exodus 20: 8-11).

    “For by Him [Jesus] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth….all things were created by Him and for Him [Jesus]” (Colossians 1: 16).

    “....by whom also He made the worlds” (Hebrews 1:2).

    Even in the New Testament Church, the God of creation is the one to worship, to fear and to honor (Rev 14:7).

    The seventh day Sabbath is the Creator's day -- an honorable day to HONOR Him (Isaiah 58:13).

    http://www.nisbett.com/sabbath/sunday_not_lords_day.htm
     
    #1 wopik, Oct 21, 2004
  2. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    "Why Sunday can NOT be the Lord's Day"

    Who DOES it belong to, then?
     
    #2 Alcott, Oct 22, 2004
  3. wopik

    wopik New Member

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    Hello Alcott,

    Acts 13:40-42 -----

    Now, notice what happened.

    The Jews left the synagogue, and only Gentiles remained. "And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath" (Vs. 42).

    What an opportunity for Paul and his men!

    Here were only Gentiles, asking the apostle to the Gentiles about coming together again for worship, and hearing the word of God preached, on the next Sabbath day!

    All Paul had to do was to explain to them that they didn't need to wait a whole week—they could come back the very next day, our Sunday, to celebrate the "Eucharistic sacrifice!" Did Paul do this?

    Remember, Luke wrote these words about thirty years after Christ had ascended to heaven. There would have been plenty of time for the "custom" of "Christians meeting together on Sunday in commemoration of the resurrection" in those thirty years.

    What happened? "And the next Sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God" (Vs. 44). These Gentile believers were not counseled to come back the next day.


    Not one word was said about Gentile Christians observing Sunday as the day for worship. Instead, they all came together the following Sabbath day. Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles, was certainly not observing the first day of the week, nor was he teaching Gentile Christians to do so.

    No, he continually taught them on the Sabbath days.
     
    #3 wopik, Oct 22, 2004
  4. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    Who DOES it [Sunday] belong to, then?
     
    #4 Alcott, Oct 22, 2004
  5. danrusdad

    danrusdad New Member

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    Rom 14:4 Who are you who judge another's servant? To his own lord he stands or falls. Yes, he will be made to stand, for God has power to make him stand.

    Rom 14:5 One man esteems one day as more important. Another esteems every day alike. Let each man be fully assured in his own mind.

    Rom 14:6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it...

    Rom 14:7 For none of us lives to himself, and none dies to himself.

    Rom 14:8 For if we live, we live to the Lord. Or if we die, we die to the Lord. If therefore we live or die, we are the Lord's.

    Rom 14:9 For to this end Christ died, rose, and lived again, that he might be Lord of both the dead and the living.

    Rom 14:10 But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

    Rom 14:11 For it is written, " 'As I live,' says the Lord, 'to me every knee will bow. Every tongue will confess to God.' "

    Rom 14:12 So then each one of us will give account of himself to God.
     
    #5 danrusdad, Oct 22, 2004
  6. tamborine lady

    tamborine lady Active Member

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    [​IMG]

    Alcott, Sunday is just another day, that Christians decided to worship on. It's made up of whole cloth. But if peope want to worship on that day, there's nothing wrong with it, it is no sin.

    Wopik: You're on the right track, don't let anyone talk you out of it!!

    Working for Jesus,

    Tam
     
    #6 tamborine lady, Oct 22, 2004
  7. Melanie

    Melanie Active Member
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    In my book every day is Gods day, but Sunday has been deemed the day for the worship of God and traditionally no work was done on the Lords Day.

    The family worshipped together and focused on the spiritual needs.
     
    #7 Melanie, Oct 22, 2004
  8. music4Him

    music4Him New Member

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    ~Wopic there may not be too much I agree with you on but, [​IMG] on getting this right. [​IMG]

    Listen to Tam too.... and don't let no one back you down.

    I can't help it folks (and I was raised Baptist), but where does it say in the bible that the 7th day sabbath changed to the 1st day of the week? Look at your calendars.......& read the word. I will still go to church on Sundays, but shouldn't Saterdays be observed as the sabbath? BTW, Just a question....didn't Jesus do good on the sabbath by teaching in the synogouge(sp?), healing the sick.... and well... basically doing good to others. Shouldn't we then follow Jesus lead on when He observed the sabbath and how?

    Music4Him
     
    #8 music4Him, Oct 22, 2004
  9. wopik

    wopik New Member

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    danrusdad

    Romans 14 has nothing to do with the Sabbath.

    Verse 2 contrasts the one who "eats only vegetables" with the one who believes "he may eat all things": meat as well as vegetables. Verse 6 discusses eating or not eating and is variously interpreted as referring to fasting (no eating or drinking), vegetarianism (eating only vegetables) or eating or not eating meat sacrificed to idols.

    Verse 21 shows that meat offered to idols was the dominant issue of this chapter: "It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak." Both meat and wine were commonly offered to idols in the Roman world, with portions of those offerings then sold in the marketplace.

    Those who assume the subject of Romans 14 is a retraction of God’s law must force this interpretation into the text.

    In 1 Corinthians 8, Paul addressed the issue of eating meat that may have been sacrificed to idols and consequently could have been viewed by some members as unfit to eat. Paul's point in that chapter was that any association of food with idolatrous activity had no bearing on whether that food was otherwise suitable for eating.

    Paul's advice in 1 Corinthians 8 was the same as his conclusion in Romans 14:15: Be especially careful not to offend a fellow member, causing him to stumble or lose faith over the issue of meats. What is clear is that the Roman members' reason for avoiding meat was directly related to the days they were observing.


    The Sabbath is nowhere mentioned in Paul's letter to the Romans; it simply wasn't the issue.

    The days mentioned here are obviously connected with avoidance of meat, indicating that they are Roman or other observances and not any days of worship commanded by God.
     
    #9 wopik, Oct 22, 2004
  10. LorrieGrace

    LorrieGrace Member

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    I worship on Sundays because that is when my church holds it's service. But it makes since that due to the fact God created ALL the days of the week, that would make ALL the days His.

    By looking at our calendar, the 1st day of the week is Sunday thus making Saturday the seventh day of the week.

    However, when I lived in Italy, their calendar has Monday as the first day of the week, thus that makes Sunday the 7th day. Hummmmm?!
     
    #10 LorrieGrace, Oct 22, 2004
  11. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    Why Sunday can NOT be the Lord's Day

    Uhh, in my Christian walk, every day is the Lord's day.

    Now, if you're talking about the Sabbath, Jesus says the Sabbath was made for man, not the other way around. Bottom line is: do what the Lord commands, and take one day in seven to rest. Your body needs it.
     
    #11 Johnv, Oct 22, 2004
  12. music4Him

    music4Him New Member

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    LorrieGrace, [​IMG] Good point with the different calendars.

    Now heres a question for everybody.

    Being that Jesus was Jewish I suppose the Jewish people would have the right day as the sabbath....does anyone have a Jewish calendar? What does it show as the 7th day? [​IMG]

    Music4Him [​IMG]
     
    #12 music4Him, Oct 22, 2004
  13. Gershom

    Gershom Active Member

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    wopik,

    You better dig a little deeper. The sabbath day is not determined by our calendar and we cannot be held accountable to such. If you're gonna claim to keep the Sabbath, you need to figure out moon phases, etc., not by looking at the calendar you bought at Kmart.
     
    #13 Gershom, Oct 22, 2004
  14. tamborine lady

    tamborine lady Active Member

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    [​IMG]

    I don't have a Jewish calender, but I do know that the Jewish peoples' Sabbath starts at sundown Fri amd goes thru sundown Sat.(our calender)

    I am SURE that they know when the sabbath is; they've been observing it for thousands of years.


    Peace,

    Tam
     
    #14 tamborine lady, Oct 22, 2004
  15. delly

    delly New Member

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    God's days are not man's days so how can any of us determine what day God's 7th. day actually is?
    All days belong to the Lord anyway, so what difference does it make what day we choose to worship. This is just another foolish impediment man puts in front of God's people. We are saved by grace, not which day we worship God on.
     
    #15 delly, Oct 22, 2004
  16. wopik

    wopik New Member

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    yea, same with my German calendar.

    I believe the church (papal?) changed monday to the first day of the week, so sunday could be the seventh day, which would make them obedient to God's 4th commandment -- NEAT TRICK! ---- but invalid.

    I wonder how God feels about people changing times:

    "And he shall speak great words against the most Hight, and shall wear out the saints of the most Hight, and think to CHANGE TIMES AND LAWS..." - Daniel 7:25.
     
    #16 wopik, Oct 22, 2004
  17. wopik

    wopik New Member

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    Johnv



    One day in seven won't do. God made a specific 24 hour period holy to Him!

    "There remains therefore a keeping of the Sabbath to the people of God"     (Heb. 4:9).

    Hebrews 4:9 -- click link

    Look it up in the margin of some King James Bibles, or in an exhaustive concordance!

    This is the truth of God from your own Bible, not the ideas of any man, or the twisted misinterpretation of scripture that we have seen in attempts to justify Sunday observance.
     
    #17 wopik, Oct 22, 2004
  18. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    Who now, hold on a minute. First, let's literally presume that God created in six days, and rested on the seventh. No where in scripture does it say that the first day of creation was a Sunday, and day God rested on was a Saturday. We humans developed and patterned the seven day week, with the last day of the week being the Sabbath recognition, as a tool to observe the Sabbath. But there's nothing in scripture to make us think that the day we call Saturday is the same day that God rested. In fact, when it's Saturday in one place in the world, it will be either Sunday or Friday in another part of the world. And I'm reasonably sure that God didn't invent the Grennwish mean time or the international date line.

    So, to be strictly biblical, we are called to rest one day in seven. That day of rest is the Sabbath. The Sabbath was made for us, and not us for it. The main purpose of the Sabbath is for us to rest, and by us resting, we honor God who created us. We are also not to allow anyone to judge us on our keeping of the sabbath.

    [ October 22, 2004, 06:44 PM: Message edited by: Johnv ]
     
    #18 Johnv, Oct 22, 2004
  19. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    You got my interest with that line, little Woppy. If there is a specific 24 hour period holy to Him, then the number of people among many sabbath-observers in the world is exceedingly small. What you said means that only on one exact meridian does the sabbath begin and end. Where I am, 33 degrees N, what we call "sundown" is now about 7 p.m. A few hundred miles east it is an hour earlier, a few hundred miles west it is an hour later. If that SPECIFIC 24 hour period begins where I am, then people east or west of me are wrong. For the sake of argument, if that SPECIFIC time period begins and ends in the Old City, Jerusalem, then we in America miss by about 11 to 14 hours! So much for that stupidity!
     
    #19 Alcott, Oct 23, 2004
  20. wopik

    wopik New Member

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    God is not that small.

    you obviously observe the Sabbath when ever the time comes to your geographical area.
     
    #20 wopik, Oct 23, 2004
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