Why voting for Donald Trump is not a morally good choice.

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Revmitchell, Sep 3, 2016.

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  1. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
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    Recently Wayne Grudem, Seminary Professor and Bible commentator, wrote an article entitled “Why Voting for Donald Trump Is a Morally Good Choice”. I have the utmost respect for Dr. Grudem and appreciate his commentaries. I was rather disappointed to read his article which is posted over at townhall.com. There are several reasons in which I find myself at odds with Dr. Grudem.

    Dr. Grudem begins early on in his article referring to Trump as a “flawed candidate”. I do agree that all candidates are flawed. Anyone not wanting a flaw in their political candidate is living in a dream world. The problem with this point, Dr. Grudem makes, is that he either ignores the long and illicit history of Trump or he is completely unaware. Trump, much like Bill Clinton, is known for his philandering and promiscuous activities. In his book “The Art of the Deal” Trump wrote:

    “If I told the real stories of my experiences with women, often seemingly very happily married and important women, this book would be a guaranteed best-seller,”

    Not only has Trump engaged in these ungodly activities but he has bragged publicly about them. This shows he has no shame, repentance, or concern for the damage and hurt he has taken part in. It shows he has no sense of what a family should be and no concern over their destruction. I would argue that Wayne Grudem needs to consider that fact that when our families are weak so will our churches, communities, and country be weak. When we elect leaders who have no moral values concerning family then we allow and even take part in the break down of the God established nuclear family and the continued destruction of our country and American founding.

    If we are going to vote for someone like Donald Trump or even Bill Clinton then we need to remain silent on the homosexual and transgender issues so as not to be hypocrites. Christians need to be consistent in order to have an effective gospel message. Voting for Donald Trump makes us inconsistent, it makes us hypocrites, and it does effect the gospel of Jesus Christ.

    Trump also has built and has his name on Casinos which have strip clubs in them. Aside of the immorality of the Casinos themselves and aside from the immorality of strip clubs, sex trafficking and prostitution are often associated with strip clubs. I do not think Trump would intentionally engage in or allow the latter activities but you have to question the moral character of one who would engage in that which is so closely associated with those horrific crimes.

    Further, in 1990 Trump appeared on the cover of Playboy magazine. Given his philandering, strip club owning, and lack of concern for an industry that often enables sex trafficking and prostitution we see a pattern of behavior that should give any Christian solid concern. Do we set aside the moral character of our political candidates because of other reasons? What possible good reason could we do such a thing? I will posit to you the following.

    The reason I believe Christians are willing to overlook the long and illustrious history of illicit behavior from Donald Trump is fear. This is due to the many conversations I have had with Christians who express anger, animosity and in some cases the use of ugly rhetoric when they think someone who is a Christian, conservative, or otherwise just not going to vote for Hillary, may vote for someone other than Trump. There is no doubt the stakes are high this election cycle. We have just gone through a long eight years of the Obama administration who ignores the rule of law, works to by pass the constitutional checks and balances created by the founders of this country, and has a seemingly strong hatred for American Judaeo Christian values.

    For America to have to endure another single term of a President with very similar problems places the fear for our country into the hearts of many Americans. We are looking at possible Supreme Court nominees, the permanency of Obama care, gun control laws and many other issues that Americans find near and dear to their hearts. The threat of a Clinton presidency is real and quite scary. However, we need to slowdown, take a breath and think this through rationally rather than emotionally.

    Folks we have got to stop voting for political candidate simply because they are espousing the right agenda. Moral character has to be priority and must always come first. After we have determined their moral character is what it should be then we listen to their agenda. When we put the cart in front of the horse we will have wreck. People voted for Bill Clinton in that exact way and look at the scandal after scandal he put the country through. I would argue that Trump is most likely worse in moral character than Bill Clinton.

    Lastly, I want to address the idea that if you are looking to vote for someone other than Hillary and you vote for someone other than Trump then your vote helps Hillary. This is a cheap shot and continues to ignore that moral character matters. I was rather disappointed to see Dr. Grudem take part in such poor argumentation. This country was founded on being able to vote our conscience. It amazes me that as Christians and as conservatives we would demonize those who choose to vote their conscience. I would argue that placing a candidate, that has little to no moral character into the position of candidate of the President of the united states creates the problem. Not refusal to vote for them.

    Christians we need to make moral choices and not fearful choices. We have a growing corrupt political system simply because we discount moral character and find political agenda more important. This is not what our country was founded on and it is not what God has called us to do.

    1 Peter 1:15 but as he who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, (ESV)

    https://pastormarkmitchell.com/2016/09/03/why-voting-for-donald-trump-is-not-a-morally-good-choice/
     
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  2. InTheLight

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    AMEN!!!

    I invite all on Baptist Board to view this video. It's not quite 8 1/2 minutes long. This is part one of a five part series. I found that once I watched part one I was compelled to continue on with the rest of the series.

    Among the many things it does, it shows that voting for the "lesser of two evils" is a variation on situational ethics and dismantles the "voting for a third party is a wasted vote" argument.

    http://stepstopoliticalepiphany.com/steps/1

    Folks, if we Christians continue to vote for the lesser of two evils, like we did in 2008 and 2012, the GOP will continue to give us lousy candidates and we're going to stay stuck in this rut.
     
  3. Salty

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    and my conscience tells me to keep Clinton out of the White House.
     
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  4. Benjamin

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  5. InTheLight

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    Situational ethics choice. Same old lesser of two evils clap-trap. Ignore all the flaws Trump has because Hillary would be worse. Compromise your beliefs.

    Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo
     
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  6. carpro

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    Says the newest hog feeding at the trough. I seem to remember you singing a different tune in past elections.
     
  7. Zaac

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    Your "conscience" is OBVIOUSLY unaligned with the Holy Spirit if you think that's your first priority as a follower of CHrist. God hasn't commanded that you nor any other Christian keep anyone out of office.

    He wants your obedience over your "sacrifice".

    Knowing that there is nothing Christ honoring about Trump, you like many, seek to sate your own wishes and are using Hillary Clinton as an excuse.

    Given the completed Canon of Jesus Christ where HE does not go against Himself.

    Christians unrepentantly keep trying to sell this lie against Jesus. If your conscience is telling you to suport that which is against God, then you better test that spirit.

    A house divided of itself cannot stand. And Jesus isn't warring against Himself.

    I would think that the Body of Christ would have enough GOD sense to look at the last two candidates for President that many Christians in the GOP have UNREPENTANTLY supported , and understand why you'll get Hillary Clinton as the next President.

    HE desires OBEDIENCE over sacrifice.
     
  8. Zaac

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    YEP!

    I think what you're seeing out of Christians today is the same type of disobedience you saw out of God's people, the Israelites. Anytime they went against Him, HE let their "enemies" win.

    Is it mere coincidence that just like the Assyrians and the Babyonians were used to discipline israel, that they now may be being used to discipline God's modern day followers?

    I think the more Christians continue to spit in God's face by supporting that which is against Him, the more you're going to see Him use what we don't want to discipline us.

    We try this foolishness about "electing a President and not a pastor" to try and remove God from the equation while we spit in His face.

    The same type rejection of God that was present in 1 Sam 8 is on full display from a lot of Christians.
     
  9. InTheLight

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    You don't say?! Where in the world did you get that idea? From this?

    Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo
     
  10. Revmitchell

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  11. blessedwife318

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    It really shouldn't matter if you used to think that way. I will freely admit that I used to make the same argument that not voting for the Republican was a vote for the Democrat. But then the Republicans crossed a bridge too far, and nominated a democrat so it gave me a chance to actually think about that argument and realized that it is a flawed argument. My husband has always voted 3rd party, and it was something we debated since he has always voted for a 3rd party person. But I knew that getting married to him I would be submitting to him, including in the voting box. The republicans did me a favor by showing me that my husband has been right all along so I will have no problem voting the same as him this election cycle.
     
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  12. Revmitchell

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    [​IMG]
     
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  13. InTheLight

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    Exactly! I've finally realized that to continue to vote Republican just because the Democrat is worse while ignoring your conscience and morals is wrong. Nothing will change if Christians continue to support flawed candidates. We're simply going to continue to get flawed candidates.

    The sad thing is, Hillary Clinton is eminently beatable. I believe that Cruz, Rubio, and Walker could have all beaten her, and I could have voted for any of those three candidates. While I would not have voted for Bush or Kasich, I think they could have won as well. Yet we got Trump.
     
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  14. carpro

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    So you think any of them could have beat Hillary...but they couldn't even beat Trump. :Roflmao

    Pretty weak.

    What you're telling us is that you really just wanted another establishment republican like McCain or Romney.
     
  15. InTheLight

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    Trump got about 40% of the GOP primary voters. Trump required going into May before he won enough delegates to clinch the nomination. Pretty weak. For most of the primary season Rubio and Cruz were beating Hillary in the polls.


    You do have a reading comprehension problem. I just got done saying that I would not support those kinds of candidates.

    Cruz is not establishment. Rubio is an original Tea Party candidate. Walker is not establishment.



    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
     
  16. Zaac

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    ITL, he's adopted that old Nazi philosophy:

    [​IMG]

    It doesn't matter what you say. What matters is what he WANTS to be the truth.
     
  17. Revmitchell

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    Trump got more than Bush, McCain, and Romney, How is that weak?
     
  18. blessedwife318

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    Because all of the above were able to secure their nomination early in the race and didn't have to drag it out until the end. I never had a chance to vote in any primary before this year since by the time my state voted it was over.
    Securing early I think shows more strength than a 40% weak win, which is even worse than McCain 46% win in the primary and we all know how well he did in the general election.

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
     
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  19. Yeshua1

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    Donald Trump though has appeared to some degree changed his past sinful decisions, and to have come around to at least understanding nore of the Christian and blical position on things now...

    Basic choice right now is between him, someone who has sinned against God by his moral decisions in the past, as we all have, but who seems to be trying to get towards more of a christian concept, to a woman whose life history is to keep on giving to us ungodly and unchristian views and posiyions on moral issues...

    I will be trusting that Trumpo can and will change in his areas far more than Hillary can, and also think that his financial cjouces and Supreme Court appointments will be far superior to hillary!
     
  20. Revmitchell

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    Really!? Please show us the exact behaviors and statements that show you that. List them out for us.
     
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