Why was Christ born in BC 3 or BC 2?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Mel Miller, Dec 20, 2006.

  1. Mel Miller

    Mel Miller
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    Friends,


    Jesus was born in BC 3 on a Julian calendar; BC 2 on a Hebrew calendar, since the year was the “fullness of time”! Christ died (was “cut off”) on the 69th time that Passover fell on the same day of the week as when Artaxerxes gave the Decree!! That month and day for Passover was Nisan 14 in 445 BC!!! Neh.2:1; Lev.23:5.

    The countdown of Daniel’s Prophecy of “70 Sets of Seven” began on Nisan 30 with each set ending on that same day exactly 84 months later so that Passover fell 69 times on the 14th of Nisan and Christ fulfilled Zech.9:9 on the 69th time that Nisan 9 fell on the 2nd Sunday of Nisan. That was Palm Sunday in AD 32. [445-1=444+32=476 % 7=68 Sets of Seven]. SIXTY-NINE SETS were fulfilled in SIXTY-EIGHT SETS of Solar Sevens. Counting down on a 360-Day Calendar forced even the 69th Anniversary of the Decree to fall on the 5th Sunday of the month of Nisan; 6-7 months after Jesus’ 33rd birthday on the Jewish New Year, Tishri 1.

    God chose 68 Sets of Seven based on a 365¼ -Day Solar Calendar to fulfill 69 Sets of Seven on a 360-Day Calendar! This number (68 Sets) was the only possible multiplier of 7 to get a whole number of “countdown days”!! No other multiple of 7 years could produce a whole number of 24-hour days…and at the same time force Passover to occur ONCE in every Set of Seven on the same Day of the Week of the month Nisan as required by Lev.23:5; AND also to force the final “Day of Visitation” to occur on Palm Sunday to fulfill Zech.9:9; five days before Jesus was “cut off” to fulfill Dan.9:26!!!

    If anyone disagrees with this finding, please let me have your response. You may find the proof at my website, but can you explain: ONE: Why did Christ fulfill Luke 19:41-44 on Palm Sunday? TWO: Why was Palm Sunday exactly 21 days before the Decree’s 69th Anniversary on Nisan 30? THREE: Why was Palm Sunday just five days before His Passover death on Nisan 14?

    Mel Miller www.lastday.net
     
    #1 Mel Miller, Dec 20, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 20, 2006
  2. av1611jim

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    Jesus was not born in "BC" anything since "BC" is BEFORE CHRIST!!!

    ha ha ha ha ha ha ha h aha ha haha ha aha aha ha hahahah ha aha!
     
  3. Joshua Rhodes

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    Thanks for this... but why does it matter?
     
  4. Helen

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    Actually, Jim, yes He was. There is no year "0", first of all. Secondly, BC and AD did not even exist until 527 AD, when Diionysius Exiguus made major changes in the calendar. He misfigured the birth of Christ and we have been stuck with his calendar 'reform' ever since.
     
  5. Scarlett O.

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    I always thought the calandar was "off" 4 years and that would make Jesus born in what we call 4 B.C.
     
  6. av1611jim

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    You obviously missed my point and the humor of it.

    Jesus could NOT have been born BC anything since BC is BEFORE CHRIST. Christ always has been, is and always will be, therefore He was not born BC. Impossible. Ask a Chinese person who has not been exposed to the Julian calender what BC means.

    And you have refuted your own point since BC AD did not even EXIST before 527 AD according to you.

    ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha hahahah
     
  7. Helen

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    When we figure the command by Caesar Augustus concerning the registration which was taken in 3 BC and then the death of Herod in 1 BC (remembering that he ordered the deaths of babies 2 years and less), we keep coming up with an autumn of 3 BC date for the birth of Christ. There are other evidences for that time, but those are the two fastest.
     
  8. Salty

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    I have in my possesion a shekel that was minted the year after the Birth and it is dated 4 BC.

    I wonder how much it is worth:applause:
     
  9. robycop3

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    Actually, Jesus was born a little earlier than that. He was born while Quirinius was governor. He had come to the area in 6 BC to deal with a rebelling tribe called the Homanadensians. He dealt with them successfully at the negotiating table, making them allies of Rome rather than rebels, and remained in the area until 3 BC. At that time, he was de facto ruler of the area, as he was the military commander. (Roman soldiers served as 'police'.)

    Also, it's well-established that Herod The Great died in early 4 BC. And Matthew said that the 'wise men' had first seen the star 2 years earlier. So according to Scripture combined with secular history, He couldn'ta been born earlier than 6 BC nor later than early 4 BC.

    Quirinius had absolutely nothing to do with Jewish affairs save the tax he exacted in Augustus' name during his military rulership. This was done to pay his army. Although Quirinius returned in 6 AD as actual governor of the area, when Herod's son Archelaus was deposed by Augustus, and levied another tax upon the order of Augustus, again, he had nothing to do with Jewish affairs.

    It appears Luke mentions Quirinius, who was well-known to the entire population of Judea, to establish the general time of Jesus' birth.

    AV1611 Jim, we must remain a little dubious about the exact dates of Cyrus' decree, as the Medes/Persians didn't keep documents nearly as extensively as the Romans did, and the Jewish sources could only guess at the dates because of the time it took such a decree to be borne from Cyrus to the Jewish leadership. And the Jews were scattered throughout several provinces of the Empire, so it took yet more time for "the word' to reach all of them.
     
  10. preachinjesus

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    Cause 9 months was the longest Mary was going to carry Jesus!

    also, the actual date probably isn't as important as the actual event :)

    merry Christmas
     
  11. Helen

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    Here -- I found and cut and pasted a couple of other posts I did earlier on this same subject here:

    Luke pinpoints for us the registration required by Augustus in concert with the first time Quirinius (also known as Cyrenius) was governor of Syria (he was governor twice, once from 6-1 BC. Then he was appointed Advosor to Gaius Caesar, and was governor again from 6-7 AD).

    In February of 2 BC, Caesar Augustus was given the title of Pater Patriae, or Father of the Country
    . He had refused that title until Roman citizens from all over the empire had agreed to it. Thus, the registration of 3 BC, taken in the late summer and autumn of that year was not only a registration of allegience to Caesar (done once every five years), but also the approval of this new title for him. Since he accepted the title in early 2 BC, we know that the registration was finished by then.

    We know from historical records that the registration took place in the late summer and early autumn of 3 BC
    . Luke tells us that Mary was heavy with child when they arrived in Bethlehem, which means, at the very least, that she was in her third trimester. We know she did not arrive months early, for 'there was no room in the "kataluma"', often mistranslated 'inn.' Kataluma is 'guest room' which every house had. In other words, Bethlehem was already crowded to overflowing.

    We can use these evidences and others, both biblical and extra-biblical to pinpoint Jesus' birth not only to the autumn of 3 BC, but to sometime between September 10 and 25 of that month
    . If He was born on the 14 of that month in that year, and circumcised eight days later, then, interestingly, He shed His first blood on that year's Day of Atonement.


    The Jewish celebration of Herod's death was January 24.

    Josephus tells us Herod died after an eclipse of the moon and was buried with all the rituals involved before Passover
    . Shortly before Herod died, he ordered the execution of a number of rabbis. It was written by Josephus that the moon was 'red with the blood of the murdered rabbis.' This means it was a full eclipse and not a partial eclipse, for you do not get a 'red moon' with a partial eclipse. Thus, the eclipse in March of 4 BC, being a partial eclipse, would not have been a red moon. In addition, there was so much pomp and circumstance to do with Herod's burial, a March death would not have left time for all of the burial procedures before Passover.

    Only one eclipse fits the requirement
    . There was a full eclipse of the moon on January 9 of 1 BC.

    This fits perfectly with the timing of the Wise Men, the astronomical events in the skies in 3 and 2 BC, and the dates of Jesus' and John's births
    .

    The registration, when Mary was heavy with child, was in the late summer and autumn of 3 BC
    . The Magoi visited the Child in December of 2 BC, when He was about 15 months old. Herod had asked them when the star first appeared. We do not have their answer, but Herod ordered children two and under to be slaughtered, trying to get rid of a pretender to his throne. Herod died in January of 1 BC. If we backtrack from the last possible date Herod could have seen the Magoi (which would have been January of 1 BC), we again run into 3 BC again as the year of Christ's birth.
     
  12. Mel Miller

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    Why was Jesus born in Year 3-2 of the Common Era?

    Helen,

    You have the facts exactly to the Fall of the Year in which Christ was born, i.e., 3 before the Common Era on the Julian Calendar and 2 before
    the Common Era on a Hebrew Calendar which started the New Year on
    the first day of Tishri. I believe Jesus was born on that DAY. This date
    was September 11 according to Dr. Ernest L. Martin's "The Star that
    Astonished the World". ASK Publications. PO Box 25000, Portland, OR.,
    97225.

    The answer to the question above has to do with the only year (AD 32)
    in which Passover fell on Nisan 14 for the 69th time since the Decree of
    Artaxerxes in the month of Nisan, year 445 before the Common Era! Nisan 9, the 2nd Sunday of Nisan, finished the countown of 68 Sets of Seven
    based on the Solar Calendar. At the same time, Nisan 30 was the 69th
    Anniversary of the Decree and Nisan 14 was a FRIDAY Passover day, for the 69th time; the "cut off" day that fulfilled Daniel's Prophecy of 69 Sets of Seven to the exact day!! Since Palm Sunday was the final day allowed by 68 Sets of Solar Sevens, this "Day of Visitation" had to be followed by the Crucifixion on Friday!!!

    This dismisses the possibility that Christ was crucified on any other day!
    There were 21 more days in 69 Sets of Biblical Sevens than were provided by 68 sets of Solar Sevens!! The Anniversary of the Decree that fell on Nisan 30 for the 69th Time had to occur 21 days after the 68 Sets of Solar Sevens ended on Palm Sunday...the "Day of Visitation"; causing Jesus to weep!!! Luke 19:41-44.

    Mel Miller www.lastday.net
     
  13. Joshua Rhodes

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    Not to beat a dead horse, but again, why does it matter?
     
  14. Trotter

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    My thoughts exactly, Joshua.

    The important thing is that He WAS born, period.
     
  15. Mel Miller

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    Why was Christ born in BC 3 or BC 2

    _____________________________________________________________

    I see several reasons why this fulfillment of prophecy is most important.

    It reveals the sovereignty of God in keeping His word given to Daniel more than 500 years before it was fulfilled. This effective apologetic tool helps to establish the veracity of God's word for those who have doubts about the fulfillment of His purposes in the world. It fortifies our faith. It disproves the view of any who insist Christ died on Wednesday or Thursday. It meets the desire of many Chistians to understand the deeper truths of God's word. We can see why Jesus "wept" over Jerusalem at His people not knowing the significance of the "Day of Visitation".

    The 70th Seven has yet to be fulfilled. We can expect it to be fulfilled in the same manner as the first 69 sets of Seven, i.e., by using both the
    Solar Calendar and the Biblical countdown of 1260 days for the second
    half that Daniel calls the "Endtime"! Believers will know the very week in which Christ will come; but not the exact day!! In fact, we know He is
    coming during the Feast of Tabernacles and on one of the three nights
    of a "full moon" that can only turn blood red when it is a total eclipse!!!

    Mel Miller www.lastday.net
     
  16. Joshua Rhodes

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    I don't think it's important to know, but that's just me.

    As far as the endtimes, if you get your life right, you don't have to worry when. Spend the time that remains getting ready, and telling the Gospel to others who don't know it. I think there's a reason that God says no one but He knows when Christ is coming.
     
  17. mountainrun

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    There is also a reason that He gave us prophecy and the book of Revelation, and it is not so that we could ignore them.

    MR
     
  18. Mel Miller

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    ______________________________________________________________

    When Jesus stated that "no one knows the Day or Hour," He did not mean
    we should not know when to expect His return! In fact, He prefaced that
    statement (Matt.24:33,36) by saying "we will know the End is Near"!! He
    gave specific signs by which we will "know the End is Near"!!!

    Part of "getting our life right" is being ready to give our lives up in our
    "testimony unto Jesus Christ"! Endtime believers will "love not their life
    unto death"!! Their testimony is an integral part of "demonstrating God's
    Kingdom Power and the Authority of His Christ"!!! Rev.12:10-17.

    Mel Miller www.lastday.net
     
  19. Deacon

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    Mel, you asked for further information.
    I was reading a commentary on Luke this morning and came across this tidbit that helps to approximate the calendar date for Jesus' birth (the year is in question here).



    Hope it helps.

    Rob
     
    #19 Deacon, Dec 28, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 28, 2006
  20. Rufus_1611

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    The following is quoted from James Ussher's The Annals of the World. I pray it adds to this discussion.

    I ignored the difficulties raised by chronologers, who are occupied by the love of contention, as Basil noted. Hence, I deduce that the time from the creation until midnight, January 1, 1 AD was 4003 years, seventy days and six hours. Also, based on the death of Herod the Great, I concluded that the birth of our Saviour was four full years before January 1, 1 AD. According to our calculations, the building of Solomon's temple was finished in the 3000th year of the world. In the 4000th year of the world, Mary gave birth to Christ (of whom the temple was a type). Hence, Christ was born in the fall of 5 BC not 1 AD.

    4000a AM, 4709 JP, 5 BC
    6059 Jesus Christ, the Son of God, was born of the most blessed virgin Mary at Bethlehem in the fulness of time. Mary wrapped him in swaddling clothes and laid him in a manger, because there was no room in the inn.

    AM = Years of the world from creation
    JP = Julian Year starting at January 1, 4713 BC
    BC = Years before the Christian Era​
     

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