Why Was Ol' Spurgeon Opposed To...

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by TCGreek, Aug 29, 2007.

  1. TCGreek

    TCGreek
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    1. Why was ol' Spurgeon opposed to instrumental music? Was he is error at this point?

    Emphasis mine.

    2. Was Spurgeon in error for not using mechanical instruments of music?
     
    #1 TCGreek, Aug 29, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 29, 2007
  2. tinytim

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    Spurgeon was not perfect, and I would disagree with him on this one.

    We should worship God not just with our voices.. but our whole being... which is our resonable service...

    That means if someone is talented in playing the piano, they should use their talents to praise God.

    IMO.. Spurgeon was wrong about a few things...
     
  3. ReformedBaptist

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    Where did the quote come from?
     
  4. TCGreek

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  5. ReformedBaptist

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  6. ReformedBaptist

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    Im amazed... :eek: but not automatically opposed...
     
  7. TCGreek

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    1. Yes, quite a few leading Christian voices were opposed to the instruments.

    2. My own belief is this: because of the global nature of worship in the NT, God has left the forms up to the different cultures as the gospel impacts their lives.

    3. So that the tribal group in either Africa or the Amazon can beat their drums in worship to God.

    4. If we were to do a study of the words for worship, we find that proskuneo, the chief word for worship, is never used in the epistles except as a direct quote fromt the OT. Not until Revelation do we find proskuneo again, with its usual meaning, "to prostrate, to bow down."

    5. The word that we have in the epistle is latreia/latreuo, to capture the essence of worship. Worship now become mobile through the use of latreia/latreuo.
     
    #7 TCGreek, Aug 29, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 29, 2007
  8. larryjf

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    As far as i know musical instruments were not in the early Church (not until the 7th century).
    Spurgeon and many others have a problem with musical instruments because they held to the Regulative Principle of worship. God tells us how we are to worship Him, and we don't invent our own ways to worship. If it is not in the Scripture as an element of worship, then it is not allowed to be used as an element of worship.

    But it must be according to God's word, not our own inventiveness.
    Taking your idea of using our talents for worship...what if was a butcher, would i be able to use that talent in a worship service?...of course not.

    Nowhere in the Bible does it tell us to use "whatever" talents we have to worship God, He tells us how He is to be worshiped.

    All this is not to say that i agree with the idea of not having musical instruments, but one must come to it from the proper perspective.

    I don't mind instruments because i don't consider them an "element" of worship. I consider the praise songs to be the element, and all that relates to them (our voices, instruments, hymnals, etc.) are not the element itself.
     
  9. Hope of Glory

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    The organ was rejected by the early church fathers as being too Jewish (magrephah), and later, many Jews rejected the organ as being too Christian.

    It may simply be a pride or separation thing at its root.
     
  10. ReformedBaptist

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    Good info. Our church holds to the Regulative Principle of Worship, yet we use instruments. *shrugs*
     
  11. TCGreek

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    How then do you harmonize the NT data with the Regulative Principle?
     
  12. ReformedBaptist

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    No clue, tis a question for my pastor next Lord's Day methinks. :smilewinkgrin:
     
  13. TCGreek

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    1. I'll say a prayer for your pastor. :thumbs:

    2. But how can you apply the Regulative Principle consistently in the worship of the church?
     
  14. christianyouth

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    John Calvin and Luther disagreed on this point. Calvin believed that the only things that should be in a worship service were things that were explicitly taught in scriptures, while Luther believed that if the NT did not prohibit something it could be used in worship. The Puritans adopted Calvins view-point and thus practiced exclusive psalmody and non-instrumental worship services.


    I wouldn't have a problem going to non-instrumental worship services. Many worship services are too contrived. They need great sounding piano to worship God, and great singing to get them 'in the Spirit'. I just had a well-known, nationally renowned(sp) singing group visit our church and 'worship' with us. While everyone in the church was clapping and 'praising God' I was sitting there disgusted with it all. This band used tons of psychological means to get people 'in the Spirit'. They told stories, had us clap our hands, changed voice inflections, the whole spheel. This was seen as 'worship' while it should have rightly been called entertainment. Here is a question, does the quality of our worship rely on the quality of the performers?

    If you need instrumental music to supplement your worship to God, is it really worship? Ligon Duncan has a great sermon on this, and he tells how every month he gets a magazine telling him how lighting is 'essential for effective worship.' Now, does that little statement not reveal the bankrupcy of the churches worship? But even if we think that is absurd, that thinking has been planted into all of us. We think that the quality of the music we make directly determines the 'effectiveness' of the worship. Example, if we have a great song leader who can sing great, we think that makes us worship God more, when if we have a song leader who sings like a dieing cat, we think the 'spirit is quenched'. We do the same thing with archietecture. If we have an opulent building, it must make us worship better. If we were like the Roman Christians forced to worship God under the catacombs with no musical instruments, I think we would not 'feel the Spirit'.

    btw, that was great about the butcher thing. :laugh:

    EDIT : Just wanted to say to anyone who has some spare time and would like to do some reading, search for the thread "Raising hands in worship". Pastor Larry deals with a lot of the unbiblical ideas of worship that are pervasive in Christianity.
     
  15. tinytim

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    Then instruments are alright, and Spurgeon and Calvin were wrong...
    Psalms 150:1-6
    (1)
    Praise ye the LORD. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power.
    (2) Praise him for his mighty acts: praise him according to his excellent greatness.
    (3) Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp.
    (4) Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.
    (5) Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.
    (6) Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD.


    No, but when did Worship stop when you left church... this is the problem of many people... they came to church TO worship...
    It is much better coming to church worshipping...
    Worship doesn't stop when you leave the church... A Butcher can worship God on his job when he is doing his best, and working ethically, and giving God praise for his job... In all things give praise to God...
    So yes, a butcher can worship God.... say, 10:00 am on a Monday morning... by just being what God designed him to be... and giving all glory to God in doing it.

    Correct.. .

    (3) Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp.
    (4) Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.
    (5) Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.
    (6) Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD.

    Should I say that unless you have dance, cymbals, and other instruments, it is not proper to praise God...
    Or do you ignore Psalms?



    Instruments do not worship, but the ones playing them do.
    They also help you, as a singer, praise God....
     
  16. Dale-c

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    I am in favor of the regulative principle but I am not sure that the RPW prohibits musical instruments.
    Is it an element or a circumstance.
    BTW, I was told that Spurgeon did allow (reluctantly) musical instruments as a circumstance to assist the singing.

    I believe the RWP is very important. BUt I don't see how the RPW requires accapella singing.
     
  17. ReformedBaptist

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    Agreed. :thumbsup:
     
  18. tinytim

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    Unless the RP ignores the Old Testament...
    Which then it would be wrong in other ways.
     
  19. larryjf

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    There is a distinction that should be made between worshiping at church and worshiping at our job.

    We should be careful about the context of certain Bible passages regarding singing, dancing, and such. Some passage are not referring to corporate worship within the temple(OT).

    It doesn't ignore it, but puts in in its proper place. The NT Church does not do OT worship, otherwise we would be sacrificing. There is a difference between the two dispensations regarding our worship. Many who don't like instruments would argue that they were part of the OT economy of worship and the priestly order, not to be carried over to the NT.

    Again, i think that instruments are fine because i don't look at them as an element of worship.


    You'd have to be more specific for an answer. I don't see any inconsistency with following the Regulative Principle.
     
  20. tinytim

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    Where is the Sanctuary God tells us to praise Him in?
    Psalms 150:1-6
    (1)
    Praise ye the LORD. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power.
    (2) Praise him for his mighty acts: praise him according to his excellent greatness.
    (3) Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp.
    (4) Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.
    (5) Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.
    (6) Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD.
     

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