Why was the gospel preached to the dead?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by UnchartedSpirit, Jan 20, 2006.

  1. UnchartedSpirit

    UnchartedSpirit
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    I dont have the exact verse, but I remember Paul saying this. Is he talking about when Christ died, he went and gave the good news to everyone who had previously died all over the earth so they could come to him? And is the message still being preached to them?

    In another topic, a lot of Native Americans before the missions came I believe did have a natural desire to seek God, but they were decieved by their own religuous leaders...are they who never saw the missions get the gospel when they died?

    Should the name of God have a universal name...or be mentioned as a character and his real name left sacred? I mean there is nothing wrong with the title of 'Great Spirit' for God, and Allah also means God in the Arabic language....

    Oh, and one more thing...were the cathloic missions as severely destructive to the Incas and other native tribes as the spiritual left points them out to be, although they blame all believers....
     
  2. Marcia

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    Uncharted Spirit, are you in a good, solid teaching church where you can do bible studies?

    The passage you are referring to is 1 Pet. 3.19 about Jesus preaching to those "in prison." It does not mean the dead get another chance!

    There are several takes on this passage:
    I am not personally familiar with this person who wrote this or with this site, but he seems to be presenting the most commonly held views on this passage, which my pastor has preached on.
     
  3. Marcia

    Marcia
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    Allah means God in Arabic, but the Muslim concept of Allah and Allah as he is taught in the Koran is NOT the God of the Bible. If one uses the name of "Allah" to mean the God of the Bible, that is one thing. But you cannot equate the Allah of Islam with the God of the Bible. Allah in the Koran is revealed to have attributes contradictory to the God of the Bible.

    I do not believe the Bible teaches that people can be saved by believing in the gods of other cultures, since they are not the God of the Bible, but you will find some here who do. Romans 1 is not saying people can be saved by believing in a god; it is saying that all are accountable and have no excuse for not believing in the creator God since his attributes have been revealed. Rom. 1 and 2 show us that all men are equally condemned before God.
     
  4. UnchartedSpirit

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    Well, I'm a little scared of actually asking the chuch I'm a member of these questions...but I could go to the one were sharing sanctuary with...what about the rest?
     
  5. Marcia

    Marcia
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    I'm not sure of your 3rd question, so I didn't answer it.
     
  6. Marcia

    Marcia
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    If you're scared of asking questions in your church, then you're in the wrong church, imo.
     
  7. UnchartedSpirit

    UnchartedSpirit
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    But I've been there for almost 10 years!
     
  8. mountainrun

    mountainrun
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    The answer to your first question, Uncharted, is that Jesus told the criminal on the cross that he would be with Him in Paradise that day.

    When Jesus descended into Paradise, He announced that that which they had been waiting for had occurred.

    When He ascended into Heaven, he "led a train of captives." {Eph. 4:8 NIV}

    Also...
    ==============
    Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, Because he anointed me to preach good tidings to the poor: He hath sent me to proclaim release to the captives, And recovering of sight to the blind, To set at liberty them that are bruised,
    ==============

    {Although captives here may not be referring to
    "those in prison" which Paul spoke of.}

    To your second question, Read Romans ch. 1 starting with verse 16.

    To your third "Oh, and one more thing...were the cathloic missions as severely destructive to the Incas and other native tribes as the spiritual left points them out to be, although they blame all believers.... "

    Yes,they were extremely destructive.
    The Spaniards baptized the Inca babies before swinging them by their feet to bash in their heads so the infants would go to heaven.

    MR
     
  9. mountainrun

    mountainrun
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    BTW, Uncharted, it would be easier for everyone, including yourself if you only asked one question at a time per thread.

    These things never stay on topic anyway and to wander off three topics could get confusing.

    MR
     
  10. UnchartedSpirit

    UnchartedSpirit
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    WHAT? That wasn't just in 'Last of the Mohicans?' Um...so the Native Americans already knew God, and choose to follow their spiritual leader instead?
     
  11. DeadMan

    DeadMan
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    Everything Marcia has said is dead on but let me add this: I'm curious to know why you would remain in a church for 10 years knowing there were some questions you couldn't ask? This can't be good for your spiritual growth. My recommendation is ask the questions! If the answers you get aren't biblically sound, consider finding a new church home that is bibically sound in doctrine and teachings.
     
  12. mountainrun

    mountainrun
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    No and maybe yes.
    They may have been acknowledging Him giving thanks the best way they knew how.

    This is one of the most asked questions in theology and exactly what God accepts as knowing and accepting Him will be known only on The Day.

    MR
     
  13. Eleazar the Ahohite

    Eleazar the Ahohite
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    In answer to your first question, I think mountainrun came in close.
    I will try to give you an answer seeing that I also was perplexed by that verse.

    I will not quote all the verses, simply displaying the references. If you judge it useful, I hope you open and read them.

    First you need to be acquainted with Luke 16:19-31, where Jesus speaks about the rich man and Lazarus, which is not a parable.

    You will observe that the rich man could see Abraham from hell with his eyes and talk with him. The Bible in numerous verses makes it clear that hell is within the earth, under your feet.
    So is Abraham's bosom. This will become a little clearer later. Ezekiel 31:6 speaks of comfort in the nether parts of the earth. Before the crucifixion, paradise and hell were in the earth seperated by an uncrossable gulf. Why couldn't the saved before Jesus get to heaven? because they were forgiven but not cleared.

    Hebrews 10:4 says
    For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

    This is why he tells the thief about paradise, not heaven at this point.
    After his crucifixion, Jesus' soul (his spirit was commended into his Father's hands and his body at this point is in the grave) descends into earth


    Ephesians 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
    Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth ?

    Captivity was captive in Abraham's bosom because they were not yet cleared by the perfect blood of the Lamb of God, though justified.

    1Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

    Now the verse in Peter never says that he preached the gospel, or what gospel. It just says "preached". We must be careful not to read into the word the salvation connotation it has acquired through church times.

    So basically here's what happens; Jesus walks into hell, pronounces judgement, and obtains the keys of death and hell (this is crucial) crosses over to Abraham's bosom and leads captivity captive out of the earth, through space and into the third heaven. Paradise was raptured, this is why Paul mentions it as being in the third heaven.
    This MIGHT also explain these verses:


    Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
    Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
    (which I suspect is prophetic of something to come)

    Now, notice what Jesus tells John in Revelation 1:18

    I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death .

    See there, he associates his having the keys of death and hell with the fact that he was dead and now lives. And seals the deal.
    Quickly worked up but I hope it helps. That Bible is a gem!
     
  14. Johnv

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    I think you're referring to Jesus decending to Hades when he died, and before he was resurrected. I personally think that Hades is no longer in existence, and that one either goes to heaven or hell upon death. But I also admit I might be wrong about Hades' existence.

    I think Paul addressed this topic in his addressing the Athenians, who were a faithful and religious people, even though they had no knowlege of the Father. In fact, he praises them for their faithfulness, even though they were ignorant of knowlege of the Truth.

    Since God doesn't have a name, it's a moot point. But God is indeed universal. I believe that anyone who does has not have knowlege of the Gospel, yet they believe in one sole almighty God, believes in the same almighty God we do. However, as with the Athenians, while their worship is faithful, they worship in ignorance and without the Truth. Hence, while they are faithful, their concept of God is not the true concept of God. That doesn't mean they worship a false God, it means they worship Him falsely, out of ignorance.


    Does that make sense??
    It depends. It is good and right to spread the Gospel. However, it is neither good nor right to destroy a civilization, a culture, or a way of life to do it. Paul didn't do it with the Athenians. The ends does not justify the means.
     
  15. Bluefalcon

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    Wayne Grudem revitalized several years ago the theory with the grammar that Jesus, after he died, went to preach to those who at that time were already spirits in prison, i.e., Jesus actually went back in time and was preaching through Noah the prophet to the unsaved in the times of the flood, which is pretty deep and hard to understand, but I'm not about to confine God by time like the open theists. In effect, Jesus, after he died, was preaching in the times of Noah. In reality, Jesus was in two times at once, not impossible for God.
     
  16. Marcia

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    Or Noah was preaching in the spirit of Jesus.

    As far as descending to Hades, that means Jesus went to the grave, not that he went to hell. Hades also means grave. After all, Jesus said to the thief that "this day, you will be with me in paradise."
     
  17. superdave

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    I have seen all the theories presented on this thread from different sources. There is little agreement since the references are pretty vague and confusing, I am incredulous about anyone who would choose to be dogmatic about any interpretation of this passage.

    I have heard and thought of it this way, but again, its tough to be sure.

    the "captives in his train" are the OT Saints being led out of their place in paradise (abraham's bosom from Luke) to Heaven because their redemtion had been realized.

    Christ told the thief on the cross he would be with him in paradise. I don't see how that could be a simple reference to the grave. His soul had to exist somewhere, it didn't just sleep for 3 days. Paul's passage talks about Christ preaching to the prisoners, possibly of Noah's generation. My pastor explained this as preaching the gospel from this perspective. They were condemned, so could not now choose to accept the message, but were told how their condemnation was just by Christ who had just realized the message of Noah that they ridiculed and rejected. I don't believe that anyone past the threshold of death will be given a chance to accept again.

    It is really a hard passage.
     
  18. Bro. James

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    "...a chance to accept again."

    And what would the odds be? And how are they determined?

    How much are the tickets in this Lotto?

    Sounds like salvation by works to me.

    "These things I have written unto you that you may KNOW that you have eternal life", does not sound very "chancey" to me.

    Selah,

    Bro. James
     
  19. superdave

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    perhaps the word opportunity would help you understand what I meant.

    Those who have died without having been made alive spiritually will face condemnation in a final sense, without another opportunity to accept eternal life.

    Disclaimer for Bro. James: acceptance of eternal life by a person, appearing as an act of their will, is the visible external expression of the impartation of spiritual life to the spiritually dead by the express work of the Holy Spirit without regard to human effort or worth.

    Hope that clears it up.
     
  20. Bro. James

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    Acceptance of eternal life suggests a human effort.

    True salvation is about conviction of sin, repentance of the lost condition, and exercising the God given faith to believe the shed blood of Jesus saves one from Hell. Our only response is thank-you Lord, for saving my soul and making me whole.

    Salvation is of the Lord. We have nothing suitable to add to the process. We know not how to choose the good without God giving us the faith to believe.

    My disclaimer: Amazing grace, how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me. I once was lost, but now I am found; was blind, but now I see.

    Amazing: while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

    Selah,

    Bro. James
     

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