Why wasn't Christ or Paul involved in politics?

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Gunther, Oct 6, 2003.

  1. Gunther

    Gunther
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    It is a simple question. You would think that somewhere in the N.T., you would find some kind of admonition to be politically active. You would search in vain to actually find one. The truth of the matter is that Christ said his kingdom was a different kind of kingdom and Paul was silent on slavery and other "political" issues.

    What does that say about the emphasis of so-called fundamentalists on other forums who are just driven by political involvement?
     
  2. gb93433

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    Paul was not silent on slavery when he said in Eph. 6:5-9, "Slaves, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart, as to Christ; not by way of eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart. With good will render service, as to the Lord, and not to men, knowing that whatever good thing each one does, this he will receive back from the Lord, whether slave or free. And masters, do the same things to them, and give up threatening, knowing that both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no partiality with Him."
     
  3. Paul of Eugene

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    Well, David and Solomon were involved in politics!
     
  4. Caretaker

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    1) I believe that Paul was already in the "State Department", being an ambassador of Christ. He did do some fund-raising I do believe, and dispursed the funds to distant congregations, and then circulated his "letters" among his constituants.

    2) I believe that Christ is a certain "shoe-in" for the throne of David. I do remember His being for social reform, giving unto the least of these and all that.

    May God bless.

    Drew
     
  5. Ulsterman

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    I think Gunther raises an important question. Whilst Paul & Jesus may have touched on political matters it is true to say they were not politically active. "No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier." (2 Timothy 2:4). A soldier may have political opinions, but he is a servant of the government irrespective of its politics. The Christian as a servant of Christ must give his loyalty to Christ first.

    In N. Ireland several high profile Christians are involved in politics. I believe this is to the detriment of the gospel, and I fear that fundamentalists in the States are in danger of making some of the same mistakes. Christian politicians here are all pro-British. Their outspoken views served to cause Roman Catholics (who are largely pro Irish) to believe that to be a Christian is to be pro British, therefore conversion to Christ not only brought into question their identification with the Roman Catholic Church, but also a denial of their upbringing, culture, family traditions and loyalties. This ought not to have been so. It is perfectly legitimate to be a pro-Irish nationalist born again Christian.

    Reading some of the posts here, and from discussions I have had with American missionaries one gets the idea that God is a paid up member of the Republican party. God is not a Republican. God is not a Democrat, God is God, and the gospel is the gospel and it is in the best interest of the truth if these two are not married in an unequal yoke. Politics is a dirty business, God's business is not. Inevitably, when political parties have their dirty linen hung out, Christians who have all but assimilated with the philosophy of that party are also tainted, and whole sections of the population who we are supposed to be reaching with the gospel, are alienated.

    Have a political view - yes. Speak on issues of moral or social concern - by all means. Be actively involved in politics - think twice!!
     
  6. DanielFive

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    Couldn't agree more David, excellent post. [​IMG]

    I think Northern Ireland provides the perfect example of why Cristians should not involve themselves in politics.

    Enda
     
  7. Bartimaeus

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    Great Thread! I am leaving to go clean some chimneys. I will post tonight.
    Thanks -----Bart "The dueling society was a polite society".
     
  8. Gunther

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    Paul was silent in trying to "abolish" slavery.

    There is no doubt that the Christ needs to be concerned about social issues (James 1:27). However, we must be careful not to equate Christianity with a particular political view.

    For example, I am pro-life, pro-gun, pro-capital punishment, pro-capitalism, pro-federalist.

    Now, I think the principles of each of those positions to be plain in Scripture. However, if someone disagreed with me, I don't make agreeing with me a necessity to coming to Christ.
     
  9. Mike McK

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    I don't know that they weren't. You're trying to make an argument from silence and that doesn't work.

    We know that Jesus spoke quite a bit against the religious/political leaders of the day.

    We know that Paul appealed to Rome as a Roman citizen.

    We can also see the involvment of dozens of OT characters in politics.

    What we don't see are much of Jesus' life or Paul's life away from ministry.

    Jesus was alive and, one would assume, active in his community to one degree or another for 30 years before his ministry began. We simply don't know what He did.

    Personally, I believe that we have a mandate as Christians to be good citizens and under our form of government, part of being a good citizen is being part of the government.
     
  10. Dr. Bob

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    Agree with the premise. Paul/Jesus were NOT political-activists.

    BUT . . what is with the CONSERVATIVE BASHING? It is only in the past few decades that conservative Christians have stepped into the political fray.

    The LIBERALS have made it their baliwick for generations! Think about the politics of Martin Luther King Jr or Jesse Jackson from the Baptist realm. Or a HUNDRED OTHERS from the liberal denominations.

    Think the conservative entries (Falwell types) are johnny-come-lately into CLERGY involved in political causes fro women's rights to black rights to save the whales.

    We ARE to be "salt and light", but I can't see much salt or light from ANY political preacher!
     
  11. greek geek

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    if i remember my history/politics correctly the political system during those days was by no means democratic. the people then had extremely little say in how the government was ran. in america, today - if you are an american citizen you are part of the government. technically we have the power. take that into account when you consider this issue. read the bible in the context of that day...don't read our government into the bible.
     
  12. DanielFive

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    I know a whole denomination of Christians who believe it is wrong for us to vote, their belief is based on this verse among others :

    Philippians 3
    20 But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, (NIV)


    I'd be interested to read what our pastors think.

    Thanks

    Enda
     
  13. Salty

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    I am so glad you brought this up. You see I have been up all night agonizing over the decision of our church to go into the bus minstry. Our church wants to purchase 100 buses to bring kids into church. You think that somewhere in the NT you would find some kind of admonition to be in the busing ministry. I have search in vain to actually find one. Now I am wondering if we should even have any kind of motor vehicles.
    I thinking about moving to PA and become Amish.

    [​IMG] :confused: [​IMG]

    Are you with me Dr Bob?
    For anybody else that :D [​IMG] would like to come along, I will be hitching the horses on Tues @ 8AM

    [ October 11, 2003, 07:27 AM: Message edited by: SALTCITYBAPTIST ]
     
  14. Gunther

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    SaltCity, your post makes no sense in regards to this thread.

    You are confusing an outreach method (the merits of are debatable) with politics.

    The focus of the N.T. is AWAY from political involvement. We are ambassadors. Our allegiance is heavenly. We are citizens of another place. We have a message to take to the world, and it is not about guns, stone, capital punishment, capitalism, or any other political issue.

    No Lord but Christ got so many killed in the 1st century. If only they would have protested the decisions of lost people :rolleyes: , ran for offices, and took up arms, they wouldn't have had such a hard time, right :rolleyes: ?
     
  15. Ransom

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    Bro Enda said:

    Philippians 3
    20
    But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, (NIV)

    Ironic that this should be used to argue against political involvement, when it was written by a man who is recorded as having appealed more than once to his privileges as a Roman citizen. In fact, in the very city this letter was addressed to, Philippi, he staged a sit-in at the local jail to demand a personal apology from the local governor for his imprisonment.
     
  16. David Mark

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    ...and the government shall be upon his shoulders...

    IMhO, The commandments to love God, one another, our neighbors and our enemies seems like a fine political solution for any situation. Even a national governmental issue. God in his anger, roused the Assyrians to discipline the Israelites. Then he punished the Assyrians because they did not give glory to him for their victory.

    Practicing love could make even the least of the breathern a good politician in what God has given him. I think that's the kind of politics that pleases the Father first and not the people first.

    If we are rubbing shoulders with others, then we are always being political in one way or another. If a Christian is in political office, how did he get there? By his own merits? Even if a powerful politician thinks he has done this or that, the truth is that God allowed him and gifted him to get there. IMhO, I think that only God can open the doors for a man to get into political office.

    Pride speaks like this: I have done this or I will do this.

    Faith speaks like this: God has done this through me or will do this through me, and I thank him for that.

    It was God himself that stirred up the Assyrians and they glorified him not for it.

    Dave

    [ October 17, 2003, 06:37 AM: Message edited by: David Mark ]
     
  17. Gunther

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    Amazing how this thread has been largely ignored by some of the "fundamentalists".
     
  18. Larry in Tennessee

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    You may not make agreement a necessity, but others do. For example, I too am pro-life, pro-capitalism, pro-capital punishment, ect. I am also opposed to all of the efforts to legitimize sodomy. However, I am opposed to the NRA, and I do support a certain measure of gun control. Just because I don't tow the party line on this one issue, I have been called a God hating liberal, even though I don't see that the Bible has anything to say about it. If I'm wrong, please correct me in Scripture.
     
  19. Gunther

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    Larry, didn't Christ tell his disciples to sell what they had and buy a sword (for self-defense of course)? I know that doesn't prove a pro-gun position. It does prove that Christ is not opposed to self-defense.
     
  20. Aaron

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    When Paul said, "Let every soul be subject to the higher powers," that was a political statement. It is not pacifism. Notice the phrase, "every soul." That would include the souls of senators, and emporers as well.

    Anyone who thinks that statesmen have the right to formulate or enforce any law contrary to God's law is deluded. God will judge those men, and we have the duty to warn and influence them.

    Jesus said, "Render unto Caesar the things that are Ceasar's."

    Pacifism is an anti-Christ philosophy.
     

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