Why we must be born again !

Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by savedbymercy, Mar 13, 2015.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    Jesus said to one that would belive on Him these words Jn 3:4-7

    4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

    5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

    6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

    7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

    The word Ye here is in the singular, for Jesus is specifically speaking of Nicodemus, who would later believe on Him as the record indicates Jn 19:38-40

    38 And after this Joseph of Arimathaea, being a disciple of Jesus, but secretly for fear of the Jews, besought Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus: and Pilate gave him leave. He came therefore, and took the body of Jesus.

    39 And there came also Nicodemus, which at the first came to Jesus by night, and brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about an hundred pound weight.

    40 Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury.

    Jesus said to him Ye must be born again ! The word must is the greek word dei and means:

    I.it is necessary, there is need of, it behooves, is right and proper

    A.necessity lying in the nature of the case

    And that necessity in the nature of the case is that all men, but in particular the Elect of God are without it [being born again] are in a state of spiritual death, along with the non elect vessels of wrath, they are dead in sin Eph 2:1,5

    And you[plural] hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

    5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

    The word dead here in Vs 5 and vs 1 is the greek word nekros and means:

    II.metaph.

    A.spiritually dead

    i.destitute of a life that recognises and is devoted to God, because given up to trespasses and sins


    ii.inactive as respects doing right



    B.destitute of force or power, inactive, inoperative

    This is the case of the Elect of God by nature that necessitates their need to be born again,

    Luke 15:24

    24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

    Matt 8:22

    But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

    Its Illustrated what the Elect are by nature as dead here Ezk 37:2-4


    The hand of the Lord was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the Lord, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones,

    2 And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry.

    3 And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live[from death]? And I answered, O Lord God, thou knowest.

    4 Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the Lord.

    5 Thus saith the Lord God unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:

    6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.

    Without the breath of God in them, we are as dead man bones without Life and movement towards God.

    We dont Live until breath is put into us, the breath is the Spirit of God in New Birth

    That word breath in Ezk 37:5-6 also can be translated wind, which points to Jesus words here as it pertained to being born again Jn 3:7-8

    7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

    8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

    Thus the necessity of being Born Again in order to become Believers and followers of Jesus Christ, because of the elects dead spiritual state by nature !232
     
  2. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    Joh 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

    Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
    Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
    Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
     
  3. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    Did you understand the points made in the OP ? Please rehearse them with me and show me you understood them, then point out what you disagree with and why, and we will further discuss it !
     
  4. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    Why we must be born again ! 2

    Regeneration / New Birth is essential if we are ever to believe the True Gospel or Believe upon the True Christ from or with the Heart as Per Rom 10:10

    10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

    Now the Heart here does not mean that bodily organ that pumps blood throughout the physical body, it means :

    But now by nature, the unregenerate to include the Elect of God do have a heart of stone Ezk 36:26

    26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

    In fact, the very words " I will give you an heart of flesh." is synonymous with New Birth or Regeneration,

    Also the heart of the Elect by nature as well as the non elect is uncircumcised Acts 7:51

    51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

    But in regeneration we receive this Rom 2:29

    29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

    Thats what is meant in Ezk 36:26

    26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

    By nature the heart is blinded and the understanding darkened Eph 4:18

    Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

    The word blindness here is the greek word pōrōsis:


    I.the covering with a callus


    II.obtrusiveness of mental discernment, dulled perception


    III.the mind of one has been blunted

    A.of stubbornness, obduracy

    B.to grow hard, callous, become dull, lose the power of understanding

    And in order to properly believe with the heart there must be a degree of understanding spiritually Jn 12:40

    He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

    Matt 13:19,23

    When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

    23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

    This means the person received the seed of the word into good ground and understandeth it, it means they had been given an heart of flesh Ezk 36:26 in New Birth, a Circumcised Heart, else they could not have believed the Word of God !
     
  5. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    Why we must be born again ! 3

    The best the natural man can do without a new heart given in New Birth is to become a superficial believer, he may attain to a natural reception pf the Kingdom Truths of the Gospel of God's Grace in Christ as is pointed out here by the Lord Matt 13:20-21

    20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

    21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

    Now this shows that the unregenerated heart can receive the Gospel Truth in some manner, perhaps merely intellectually, yet notice that it does not take root in their heart, and sooner or later they stumble at it and become offended ! Luke states it that they shall fall away Lk 8:13

    13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

    They believe only temporary is the awful indictment against them, then they must fall away in testing.

    Now the word for fall away is aphistēmi and means:


    They do what John writes of here in His Epistle 1 Jn 2:19

    19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

    In fact the word is the very same Paul uses here 1 Tim 4:1

    Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith of the Gospel, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

    Thats evidence of them having been stony heart hearers who later fall away like Jesus stated ! Its also evidence that they never had a regenerate heart, but they still have the heart of stone Ezk 36:26

    26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

    So the stony heart here is the same as the Matt 13:20-21

    20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

    21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

    Yes they can receive it, but only to fall away from it, neither did they truly understand it, because they are contrasted with those who did receive it, but they understood it and bare fruit Matt 13:23

    23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

    Please note, it was never stated that the stony ground hearer understood it !

    And Understanding the Word with the heart is vital to conversion Jn 12:39-40

    39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,

    40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

    Thats the indictment against the unregenerate heart in its inability to believe the Gospel, it may believe it superficially, but thats about it !

    Thats why its essential for the Elect to be born again to believe the Gospel !
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,001
    Likes Received:
    46
    Salavtion is BOTh God granting to sinners a new heart, AND that person responding by receiving Jesus thru faith in order to get saved by God, correct?
     
  7. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    What is drawing ?

    Jn 6:44

    44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

    Jn 12:32

    32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

    This drawing is the result of the New Birth, the inward teaching of the Spirit.

    Jesus said also that those who come to Him have been Taught of God Jn 6:45

    45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

    The word taught above is the greek word didaktos and its the same word used here 1 Cor 2:13

    Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

    So the teaching above in Jn 6:45 that results in one coming to Christ, is that which is done by God the Spirit, and hence that is drawing to Christ. So the drawing is nothing less than New Birth / Regeneration, equating to Spiritual Instruction that leads to Christ !

    So in essence Jesus is saying also in Jn 12:32, that if He be lifted up [speaking of His death on the cross] that all for whom He is Lifted up in behalf of, shall be regenerated, taught of God, and come to me ! They shall be made willing in the Day of His Power to come to Him Ps 110:3

    3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

    For Drawing means many different things spiritual like:

    Spiritual Resurrection, Circumcision of the Heart, taking away the heart of stone and putting in a heart of flesh, Illumination, putting His Spirit within us to teach us, causing us to walk in His statues, to keep His Judgments to do them Ezk 36:26-27

    26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

    27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

    I received many thoughts on this subject from a "treatise on regeneration" by Peter Van Mastricht Pg 12 !

    http://books.google.com/books/about/A_Treatise_on_Regeneration.html?id=rgcMAAAACAAJ
     
  8. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    New Birth, Regeneration, or being born again is a Gift !

    New Birth, Regeneration, or being born again is a Gift ! Its a Gift of God's Mercy Towards the redeemed through Jesus Christ,

    1 Pet 1:3

    Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

    New Birth is according to God's Abundant Mercy, not by the will of man as religionist would tell us, and they do lie !

    It is by and through the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, the Head of the Body the Church, that each member of His body is begotten again !

    The word "begotten again " are the words ana + gennaō and means:


    I.to produce again, be born again, born anew


    II.metaph. to have one's mind changed so that he lives a new life and one conformed to the will of God

    Pay attention to the definition, the words produce again ! The word produce is a strong word, it denotes Creation :


    to bring into existence; give rise to; cause:
    "to produce steam."


    2.

    to bring into existence by intellectual or creative ability:

    to create, bring forth, or yield offspring

    Its the bringing into existence offspring ! Remember the Prophet Isaiah said of the Suffering Servant Isa 53:10

    10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

    That word seed zera` means:

    I.seed, sowing, offspring

    A.a sowing


    B.seed


    C.semen virile


    D.offspring, descendants, posterity, children

    Some versions even read like this:

    Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
    and though the Lord makes[a] his life an offering for sin,
    he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
    and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.NIV

    In other words, He will see His Offspring come forth, to come into existence !

    Now this New Production and existence of this Offspring is [through dia] the Resurrection of Christ from the dead ! Not through believing, as some who do lie tell us, but through Christ's Resurrection.

    That word dia means:

    II.through

    A.the ground or reason by which something is or is not done

    i.by reason of


    ii.on account of


    iii.because of for this reason


    iv.therefore


    v.on this account

    It tells us why, or what was the cause, reason for this New Birth, the Resurrection of Christ,

    So New Birth is a Gracious Gift out of the Abundant Mercy of God, I dont care what anybody says, or what other scriptures they appeal to, they cannot contradict this plain Testimony of Scripture !
     
  9. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2001
    Messages:
    6,179
    Likes Received:
    226
    From the cradle to the grave!

    John the Baptist was born again in his Mothers womb.
    Nicodemus was born again after his encounter with Jesus Christ
    One of the thieves who was crucified with Jesus was born again at the cross.
    The Salvation of ALL Gods children are in his hands... Brother Glen
     
  10. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    How you doing? You quoted from my post made, did you understand the points I made with scripture?
     
  11. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2001
    Messages:
    6,179
    Likes Received:
    226
    Praise the Lord!... That's my doctrine!... Not a theologian just and ignorant brother who doesn't know Greek!... Brother Glen
     
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,001
    Likes Received:
    46
    Do we get born again the moment that we receive jesus thru faith, or was it when he died for our sins?
     
  13. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    0

    Are you reading my points ? Lets go to post #8, did you understand the points made ? This question of yours is totally evasive of what I posted ! How can you debate things I posted when you evade them ?
     
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,001
    Likes Received:
    46
    When were you saved, and how did you get saved?
    What did God require you to do in order to have eternal life, and be forgiven of your sins?
     
  15. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    Again:

    Are you reading my points ? Lets go to post #8, did you understand the points made ? This question of yours is totally evasive of what I posted ! How can you debate things I posted when you evade them ?
     
  16. PreachTony

    PreachTony
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2014
    Messages:
    1,910
    Likes Received:
    0
    C'mon, Y1, haven't you figured it out by now?

    You have to repeat back what SBM said in order for him to even consider you worth discussion. Simply asking him questions about what he posts is not good enough. You have to repeat his posts and agree with a large portion of what he said in order to gain entry into his school of thought.
     
  17. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thats right ! If after I have put effort into making a point, and all my critics can do is evade them, and start rabbit trail questions, then they are not worth answering ! If you or anyone wants to debate what I have posted, I am fine with that, however it cannot be done if you evade what I posted, at least you should have the decency to show you understand the points you seemingly disagree with,or else you are a evader ! You want to debate or evade ?
     
  18. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    No man can say Jesus is Lord but by the Holy Ghost !

    No man can say Jesus is Lord but by the Holy Ghost ! 1 Cor 12:3

    3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

    Many call or say Jesus is Lord by the flesh, and or by their natural intellect, but very few call upon Him as Lord by the Holy Ghost, and frankly speaking, none of us have a right or privilege to call Him Lord, save if we do so by the Holy Ghost, for if we have not the Spirit, there is no proof that we belong to Him Rom 8:9

    9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

    Thats pretty emphatic I would say ! Actually its in the Holy Ghost, or in the realm of the Spirit, No man can say Jesus is Lord but in or in the realm of the Spirit.

    That prep by in 1 Cor 12:3 is en and means:

    en (a preposition) – properly, in (inside, within); (figuratively) "in the realm (sphere) of," as in the condition (state) in which something operates from the inside (within).

    a prim. preposition denoting position and by impl. instrumentality
     
  19. kyredneck

    kyredneck
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    10,545
    Likes Received:
    272
    You all realize that's it's literally 'born from above', right?

    As in:

    It behoveth you to be born from above; the Spirit where he willeth doth blow, and his voice thou dost hear, but thou hast not known whence he cometh, and whither he goeth; thus is every one who hath been born of the Spirit.` Jn 3:7,8 YLT

    26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, which is our mother.
    27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; Break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: For more are the children of the desolate than of her that hath the husband.
    28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise.
    29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, so also it is now. Gal 4
     
  20. kyredneck

    kyredneck
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    10,545
    Likes Received:
    272
    I like what AA says here:

    http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1971799#post1971799

    Born from above means 'born of God':

    13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. Jn 1

    The creature is absolutely, totally, 100% passive in the heavenly birth.

    And it occurs BEFORE one comes to Christ. Often LONG before.
     
    #20 kyredneck, Apr 20, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 20, 2015
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Loading...