why we must get involved politically

Discussion in 'Politics' started by freedom's cause, Nov 1, 2005.

  1. freedom's cause

    freedom's cause
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    Dear Friend:

    Senator John McCain thinks TERRORISTS SHOULD HAVE THE SAME RIGHTS AS U.S. CITIZENS!

    McCain -- the man who would be the next President of the United States -- and Senator Lindsey Graham -- the man who would be McCain's Veep -- spearheaded an amendment to the $440-billion military spending bill that would extend to spies, terrorists, and Islamic jihadists the same rights U.S. citizens enjoy under the Constitution.

    And our spineless Senators -- by a vote of 90-9 -- actually voted in favor of this ghastly amendment.

    This amendment, spearheaded by McCain and Graham – the same two RINO ringleaders of the mutinous seven who sank the Constitutional Option -- would actually require that our troops be extra careful not to do ANYTHING THAT WOULD DEGRADE, OFFEND OR INSULT THESE KILLERS!

    Last week we asked you to Blast Fax the Republican Members of the Senate and the leadership of the House. And I'm happy to report that our Senators are feeling the heat and you are having a tremendous effect!

    But the fight is not over yet! A battle of this magnitude is simply too important -- too much is at stake for us to coast to the finish line!

    And while McCain and Graham have been caught red-handed, now is the time to really drive the point home and call them to task for this betrayal of our troops and the American people!

    That's why we need to keep up the pressure!

    Our troops deserve better! The brave Americans who lost their lives on 9-11 deserve better! And frankly, you and I deserve better!



    http://www.grasstopsusa.com/tyrannyheii.html



    The McCain Amendment -- SA 1977 -- Says The Following...

    It's hard to believe that our GOP Senators would vote for such a ghastly amendment.

    That's why we want you to see it for yourself!

    SEC. __. PROHIBITION ON CRUEL, INHUMAN, OR DEGRADING TREATMENT OR PUNISHMENT OF PERSONS UNDER CUSTODY OR CONTROL OF THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT.

    (a) In General.--No individual in the custody or under the physical control of the United States Government, regardless of nationality or physical location, shall be subject to cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment. [emphasis added]

    (b) Construction.--Nothing in this section shall be construed to impose any geographical limitation on the applicability of the prohibition against cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment under this section. [emphasis added]

    (c) Limitation on Supersedure.--The provisions of this section shall not be superseded, except by a provision of law enacted after the date of the enactment of this Act which specifically repeals, modifies, or supersedes the provisions of this section.

    (d) Cruel, Inhuman, or Degrading Treatment or Punishment Defined.--In this section, the term "cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment'' means the cruel, unusual, and inhumane treatment or punishment prohibited by the Fifth, Eighth, and Fourteenth Amendments to the Constitution of the United States, as defined in the United States Reservations, Declarations and Understandings to the United Nations Convention Against Torture and Other Forms of Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment done at New York, December 10, 1984. [emphasis added]

    Pay special attention to the phrase “degrading treatment” and ask yourself just what constitutes degrading treatment.

    Terrorists are butchering women and children all over the globe and launching sneak attacks on our troops – and we’re supposed to walk on egg shells when we try to find out which Americans they intend to kill next?

    Just think about it. These jihadists are willing to die for their faith, and we aren’t even willing to be ill-mannered to protect American lives.




    Here Are Some Terrorist Attacks That American Intelligence Units Have Discovered And Thwarted.

    Do you realize that not a single terrorist attack has occurred on American soil since 9/11 – despite the dark, dire predictions of the political know-it-alls.

    You know why? Because our worldwide intelligence operation has discovered and exposed plot after plot to kill Americans, both abroad and at home.

    You may be alive today because some interrogator wasn’t too fastidious about how he got his information from some proud, smirking terrorist.

    In mid-2002, U.S. agents uncovered a plot to hit targets on the East Coast. The plotters intended to use hijacked airplanes. By the way, one of the plotters of this caper was also involved in planning 9/11.

    In May of 2002, the U.S. busted a plot to bomb U.S. apartment buildings. Jose Padilla, one of the plotters, even pushed for exploding a “dirty bomb” inside the U.S. A dirty bomb is filled with conventional explosives and radioactive materials.

    A 2003 plot to attack London’s Heathrow Airport, using hijacked airliners.

    At least two plots in 2004 to blow up targets in Britain – strategies designed specifically to kill civilians.

    At least two plots to attack ships in the Arabian Gulf and the Straits of Hormuz.

    No one knows how many hundreds, if not thousands, of lives have been saved by the interrogation methods used by U.S. intelligence units, military and otherwise.

    Do you want them to stop what they’re doing and take lessons on prison manners from John McCain?




    Let’s Clear Up A Few Things Right Now

    We don’t torture prisoners. We don’t blindfold them, threaten them with execution, and televise their pathetic pleas for life.

    We don’t condone cruel and unusual punishments. We don’t lop off prisoners’ heads in front of TV cameras or on the world wide web.

    With few exceptions, we treat prisoners as humanely as any enemy has ever treated its enemies. Ask the handful of U.S. troops who survived captivity how the terrorists treated them.

    Abu-Gharib was the exception -- not the rule -- and mere child's play in comparison to how these terrorists, murderers and thugs treat our people -- or even their own people for that matter.

    The only atrocities going on at Guantanamo Bay are the atrocities that these murderers and thugs who are being detained are heaping upon the fine U.S. soldiers assigned to guard them.

    We give these terrorists their own Korans, prayer rugs, clean living conditions, indoor plumbing and three square meals a day... many of them NEVER had it so good.

    Of course that has not stopped anti-America members of our own media from literally beating up on our brave men and women in uniform -- looking for isolated examples of "abuse" -- and -- in many cases -- simply making them up.

    These facts did not stop the liberal Senator from Illinois -- Dick Durbin -- from falsely comparing our brave men and women in uniform to NAZIs.

    However... perhaps you now see why our GOP-lead Senate voted for this ghastly amendment?

    Simply put, they did not want to be skewered by members of the anti-American press who would have -- without a doubt -- FALSELY reported opposition to this dastardly amendment as support of torture.

    And that -- dear friend -- is cowardice, pure and simple!

    While our troops risk their lives on the battlefield half-way around the world -- these spineless Senators would not even risk a little bad-mouthing from a biased media!

    It's so sick... it's disgusting!

    McCain’s amendment is a nasty, politically motivated slur on the integrity of our armed forces, and a gross insult to the American people.

    What the Senate did last week must be undone this week.


    Christopher Carmouche
    Executive Director
    GrassTopsUSA




    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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    [edited to bring into comformity with BB rules about regarding copyrights and lengthy posts]

    [ November 02, 2005, 10:15 AM: Message edited by: C4K ]
     
  2. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles
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    From the get-go, this diatribe is fallacious. There is no bill needed to extend any rights. Constitutional rights already apply to any person. If someone is a SUSPECTED terrorist, due process should apply. If they are convicted and truly found to be guilty of terrorism, the law will take care of that too. If that happens, their rights can, and should, be restricted under civil or military law (including the right to life). Using a broad brush of "terrorist" to deny persons civil rights is a slippery slope indeed. Who is the next to be given the label "terrorist"? It might someday be Christians.
     
  3. Baptist in Richmond

    Baptist in Richmond
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    Have you actually read the text of what the Senators have introduced???

    Regards,
    BiR
     
  4. go2church

    go2church
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    OK, doesn't that post violate some BB rule?
     
  5. billwald

    billwald
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    Major premise is wrong: Christians should forget all politics (except for amusement) and put their assets on being salt and light - evangelism and missions.
     
  6. Paul of Eugene

    Paul of Eugene
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    I disagree, Billwald, some christians I believe are called to serve as civil servants.

    Like Daniel, for example.

    And that includes serving in public office.
     
  7. StraightAndNarrow

    StraightAndNarrow
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    The administration's position right now is that we will not abide by the Geneva Convention and can do whatever we chose to do to get information from enemy personnell captured in the war. I don't believe that this is the way America should operate. It's more like a renegade nation like Iran, North Korea or Libya. When we sink down to the level of these people we have lost our humanity. Just one man's opinion. BTW McClain knows what it's like to be tortured as a prisioner of war. Maybe people who oppose humane treatment of POW's should experience one day in the Viet Nam cage that McCain was kept in and taken out of to be tortured.
     
  8. Johnv

    Johnv
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    I think they have the same rights. They have the right to be tried in a court and sentenced to incarceration just like anyone else.
     
  9. Brother James

    Brother James
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    [​IMG]
     
  10. billwald

    billwald
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    "I disagree, Billwald, some christians I believe are called to serve as civil servants."

    Working for a living is different than getting involved in politics. Civil service was invented to keep govt workers out of politics.
     
  11. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
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    Magnetic Poles: //From the get-go, this diatribe is fallacious. There is no bill
    needed to extend any rights. Constitutional rights already apply
    to any person. If someone is a SUSPECTED terrorist,
    due process should apply. If they are convicted and truly found
    to be guilty of terrorism, the law will take care of that too.
    If that happens, their rights can, and should, be restricted
    under civil or military law (including the right to life)
    Using a broad brush of "terrorist" to deny persons civil rights
    is a slippery slope indeed. Who is the next to be given
    the label "terrorist"? It might someday be Christians//

    Amen, Brother Magnetic Poles- preach it!
    You sure can debate and defuse the professionally written
    political material COPIED AT LENGTH IN DISREGARD FOR THE RULES
    OF THE BOARD.

    Baptist in Richmond: //Have you actually read the text of what
    the Senators have introduced???//

    Amen, Brother Baptist in Richmond -- Preach it!
    I don't think so, I'm ADD and cant seach through the professional
    political propagandist conclusion jumping to find the small seed of
    truth.

    Straight and Narrow: //The administration's position right now is that we will not abide
    by the Geneva Convention and can do whatever we chose to do
    to get information from enemy personnell captured in the war
    I don't believe that this is the way America should operate.
    It's more like a renegade nation like Iran, North Korea or Libya
    When we sink down to the level of these people we have lost
    our humanity.//

    Amen, Brother StraightAndNarrow - Preach it!

    As for the title, i shall support Senator John McCain's bid for
    the preidency.
     
  12. ASLANSPAL

    ASLANSPAL
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    Nailed it!
     
  13. Bunyon

    Bunyon
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    "The administration's position right now is that we will not abide by the Geneva Convention and can do whatever we chose to do to get information from enemy personnell captured in the war."-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I don't know about the merits of the post, but some of you have shown a lack of knowledge about rights and due process. A non-combatent operateing in a foreign country is not given constitutional rights such as due process. That right does not exist for Non-combatants in foreing confilcts. In fact, the Geneva convention does not apply to them either. That is just the facts.

    I condemn unecessary tourture such as Abu Girab. But the day we caputure a terrorist who is part of a cell that has planted an atomic bomb in an American city, I think torture should be on the table when it comes to finding an atomic bomb before it detonates. Don't you?
     
  14. Ben W

    Ben W
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    Freedoms Cause,

    I agree with you! Christians should get involved politically, and that is why growing number of Evangelicals are joining christian political parties.

    Here is one you might like to have a look at.

    http://www.constitutionparty.com/
     
  15. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    Ben,

    The CP is certainly Constitutional, but I would not call it Christian. It fails to meet that standard by promoting a form of isolationism that crosses to the other side of the road instead of helping another in need. They are the same America First crowd who would have let the Jews die by the millions instead of going to war. They are selfish, immoral people.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  16. hillclimber

    hillclimber
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    From the get-go, this diatribe is fallacious. There is no bill needed to extend any rights. Constitutional rights already apply to any person. If someone is a SUSPECTED terrorist, due process should apply. If they are convicted and truly found to be guilty of terrorism, the law will take care of that too. If that happens, their rights can, and should, be restricted under civil or military law (including the right to life). Using a broad brush of "terrorist" to deny persons civil rights is a slippery slope indeed. Who is the next to be given the label "terrorist"? It might someday be Christians. </font>[/QUOTE]The constitution applies to Americans and not foriegn terrorists.
     
  17. hillclimber

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    We and perhaps the British Govt. are about the only countries that pay any attention at all to the Geneva convention, and because of that, we start off at a big disadvantage militarily.
    J. McCain's treatment and his reaction to being a POW has severly clouded his judgement, and consequently we have horrible legislation such as this, and for some reason or another he is looked on as a future GOP riser, which to me is terrible. I don't think he is stable mentally, and will crack under the strain of campaigning.
     
  18. The Galatian

    The Galatian
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    I don't think we can afford another one of those.

    Bush's Erratic Behavior Worries White House Aides
    By DOUG THOMPSON
    Jun 4, 2004, 02:17

    President George W. Bush’s increasingly erratic behavior and wide mood swings has the halls of the West Wing buzzing lately as aides privately express growing concern over their leader’s state of mind.

    In meetings with top aides and administration officials, the President goes from quoting the Bible in one breath to obscene tantrums against the media, Democrats and others that he classifies as “enemies of the state.”

    http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_4636.shtml

    Capital Hill Blue
    Because no one's life, liberty, or property are safe while Congress is in session and the White House is occupied
     
  19. Bunyon

    Bunyon
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    This old report does not seem reputable and the source seem looney. They do not name one single source in the whole article. Why would you put any stock in this?
     
  20. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    After you get to know Galatian for a while, you get used to this kind of thing from him.

    Joseph Botwinick :D
     

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