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Why Would a Pastor Condone Freemasonry

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by O.F.F., May 22, 2004.

  1. Jacob Webber

    Jacob Webber New Member

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    (All I can say is, for anyone to know Freemasonry like she knows it, and to speak of it with such confidence, is no mere speculation.)

    Mike again the same can be said about you and Bro Tony. You are a member of a clandestian Lodge you have never been thru a recognize branch of Freemasonry. Bro Tony who said he was not a Mason can only go by hear say as he has never been thru Freemasonry.
     
  2. O.F.F.

    O.F.F. New Member

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    The Worm continues to post lately some references to the Kaballah, and is trying to imply that it is somehow "Christian," when in fact it is Occultic. The following is an article by Carl Teichrib, a researcher and writer on world religions and the impact of globalization on Christianity:

    "Mysticism and occultism abound with symbols that often point to a transcendental reality beyond conscious understanding. —Nevill Drury, Dictionary of Mysticism and the Occult, p. 249.

    Symbolical instruction is recommended by the constant and uniform usage of antiquity; and it has retained its influence throughout all ages, as a system of mysterious communication. —Albert Pike, Morals and Dogmas, p. 372.

    This article marks the sixteenth in an ongoing series on occult symbols.

    We see symbols every day. In the US, the one dollar bill is laced with esoteric markings. Symbols, both Christian and pagan, can be seen in stained glass church windows, cathedrals, and temples. Monuments across the continent act as symbols in and of themselves, and often have other symbols inscribed upon them. Symbols, be they benign or based in occult lore, are inescapable.

    A simply way of explaining what symbols are would be thus; symbols are a tangible and visible language conveying a specialized message. In the occult world, those who are trained to "understand" these messages recognize that certain forces are at work in the world—forces which are spiritual in nature. Furthermore, in this world of esoteric learning, symbols hold the key to the secret doctrines and teachings of the ages. These doctrines are steeped in the philosophies of pagan mystery religions and secret societies, forming a spiritual "alternative" to the Biblical worldview; fully equipped with alternative histories, alternative ways of salvation, alternative gods, and alternative realities.

    Understanding this greatly amplifies the words of Proverbs 14:12, "There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death."

    Manly P. Hall, one of the most influential occultists of the last century, wrote this of symbols, "They are centers of a mighty force, figures pregnant with an awful power…" (Lectures on Ancient Philosophy, p. 356).

    The Tree of Life:

    In the Genesis account of the fall of man, we find God expelling Adam and Eve from the Garden of Eden. Genesis also records that if God had not expelled the couple, they could have eaten from the Tree of Life—whose fruit would bring immortality. If Adam in his sinful state had eaten from the Tree of Life, what would the implications be? An eternally sinful man pitted against an eternally Holy God is the only logical thought that comes to mind. What recourse would God have had other than to completely banish humanity from Himself? Granted, this is only conjecture. However, it is a sobering thought, and it plays into the theme of this article—mankind’s quest to attain the Tree of Life.

    Just as the book of Genesis tells us about the Tree of Life, so too the occult claims knowledge of the "Tree of Life"—and offers diverse ways to its fruit. Manly P. Hall, in his monumental work, The Secret Teachings of All Ages, writes, "…the Tree of Life is also the appointed symbol of the Mysteries, and by partaking of its fruit man attains immortality."

    Hall is correct on one account; Yes, the Tree of Life is a central symbol of the mystery religions—those "esoteric" or occult religions and philosophies which have acted as a hidden hand upon society. But does it give man "immortality"? Or is it another version of the same lie as found in the Garden of Eden—"You shall not surely die" (Genesis 3)?

    In studying the occult Tree of Life, an obvious irony occurs. While the book of Genesis is God’s Word revealed through the Hebrew people, so too the "esoteric" Tree of Life is likewise linked to an ancient Hebrew text—the Kabbalah.

    Until fairly recently, the Kabbalah was virtually unheard of outside scholarly Rabbinic circles and to those deeply involved in esoteric schools. Yet for hundreds of years this "secretive" text has been used as a cornerstone for occult societies and doctrines. Consider the words of Albert Pike—arguably the most influential Freemason that has lived—regarding the importance of the Kabbalah in relationship to the mystery schools and to Freemasonry in particular,

    The Kabalah is the key to the occult sciences; and the Gnostics were born of the Kabalists. (Morals and Dogma, p. 626)

    Masonry is a search after Light. That search leads us directly back, as you see, to the Kabalah. In that ancient and little understood medley of absurdity and philosophy, the Initiate will find the source of many doctrines; and may in time come to understand the Hermetic philosophers, the Alchemists, all the Anti-papal Thinkers of the Middle Age, and Emanuel Swedenborg. (Morals and Dogma, p. 741)

    All truly dogmatic religions have issued from the Kabalah, and return to it: everything scientific and grand in the religious dreams of all the illuminati, Jacob Boehme, Swedenborg, Saint-Martin, and others, is borrowed from the Kabalah; all the Masonic associations owe to it their Secrets and Symbols. (Morals and Dogma, p. 744)

    The Hermetic Science of the early Christian ages, cultivated also be Geber, Alfarabius, and others of the Arabs, studied by the Chief of the Templars, and embodied in certain symbols of the higher Degrees of Freemasonry, may be accurately defined as the Kabalah in active realization, or the Magic of Works. (Morals and Dogma, p. 840)

    Interestingly, the first English translation of the Latin Kabbala was completed by S.L. MacGregor Mathers, an occultist highly involved in Freemasonry and numerous other esoteric schools. Clarifying the Kabbalah’s history, Mathers wrote, "The Qabalah may be defined as being the esoteric Jewish doctrine." (The Kabbalah Unveiled, p. 2). [Note: Kabbalah is spelled many different ways—with a Q, with a C, and with a K].

    But why go into such a lengthy discourse concerning the mystical usage of the Kabbalah? Because in order to understand the occult Tree of Life, one must look at its roots—literally. And the esoteric Tree of Life is found in the secret teachings of the Kabbalah. [Note: Teachings concerning the Tree of Life are not necessarily explicit in the Kabbalah. A.E. Waite, a contemporary of Mathers, explains in his book The Holy Kabbalah that the Tree and its meaning is "implied continually" within the Zohar, one of the major books that make up the Kabbalah.

    Nevill Drury, in his Dictionary of Mysticism and the Occult, offers a simple (?) explanation of what the occult Tree of Life represents in its relationship to the Kabbalah.

    The Tree consists of ten spheres, or sephiroth, through which—according to mystical tradition—the creation of the world came about. The sephiroth are aligned in three columns headed by the supernals and together symbolize the process by which the Infinite Light…becomes manifest in the universe…Taken as a whole, the Tree of Life is also a symbol of the archetypal man Adam Kadmon, and the sephiroth have a role resembling that of the charkas [sic] in yoga.
    [​IMG]
    All of this can become rather confusing, and the study of the Kabbalah itself can become bogged down in terminology foreign to most westerners. Yet the deeper meaning is fairly easy to grasp: The occult Tree of Life is a path in which the initiate—the occult student—discovers and experiences the "inner light" (also called the "inner Christ"). It is a system of spiritual doctrines which opens up the mind and the soul to a new level of understanding—"salvation comes from within."

    The Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, one of the most mysterious western occult schools, greatly employed the knowledge of the Kabbalahistic Tree of Life within its rituals and teachings. Israel Regardie, in his massive reference work on the rituals and teachings of the Golden Dawn, tells us that this path is an "exulted condition of consciousness…an essence or spirit which is everywhere and at all times expressed in terms of Light." (The Golden Dawn: A Complete Course in Practical Ceremonial Magic)

    Freemasonry and the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn are only two of the many esoteric orders that claim doctrinal ties to the Kabbalah, and the quest for the Tree of Life. Rosicrucian and Theosophical societies—both claiming to be depositories of "secret knowledge"—also introduce their higher initiates to its forbidden fruit. Other historically significant mystical organizations, as earlier mentioned by Pike—Martinists, the followers of Boehme, Swedenborg, and the Knights Templar—have all drawn heavily from the Kabbalah.
    [​IMG]
    The Tree of Life is also known by other names, including the Cosmic Tree and the World Tree. However, both the Cosmic Tree and the World Tree may have other connotations and symbolic meanings—i.e., the Celts regarded the oak as the Cosmic Tree while in Scandinavia it was the ash. And yet, the Tree of Life as understood by students of the Kabbalah holds both of these alternative titles.

    A similar concept to the mystical Tree of Life can likewise be found in Buddhism. Jean Chevalier and Alain Gheerbrant tell us in the Penguin Dictionary of Symbols; "The Bodhi-tree under which the Buddha obtained enlightenment is yet another World Tree and Tree of Life, and in early Buddhist iconography it stands for the Buddha himself." Other societies around the world have similarly incorporated some form of "Tree of Life" into their mythologies, religions, and mystic philosophies. It’s a global symbol.

    The irony in studying the Tree of Life—as stated earlier, is that it has two "Hebrew" branches—one, the Genesis account; the second, the teachings of the Kabbalah. Without straying too far from this article’s purpose, it has to be noted that this is not an indictment of Jews, nor is it in any way an anti-Semitic stance. The fact remains that many cultures have had mystic offshoots that have played influential roles, both historically and in our modern society. The founding of America is one such example; while the US has had a strong Christian heritage, it has an equally strong Masonic-historical foundation. Ironic, yes; however, these contradictions are just the realities of our fallen world.

    The bottom line is this: the quest for the mystical Tree of Life is simply the desire to take the Garden of Eden by force, tear down whatever barriers stand in the way of its fruit, and by man’s own hand taste immortality. The result will be catastrophic for the individual who, through the occult and the works of magic, attempts to gain "everlasting life" outside of God’s prescribed way—"the way and the truth and the life"—Jesus Christ.

    However, Jesus Christ gave an awesome promise in the book of Revelation concerning the Tree of Life, something that we as believers can hold onto,

    Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

    Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. — Revelation 22:12-14.

    P.S. A point of clarification: Esoteric organizations such as Freemasonry are implicit rather than explicit in their use of Kabbalah; that is, while they don’t openly teach from the Kabbalah (most Masons don’t even know what it is), their symbols and esoteric doctrine are steeped in its mystical teachings." (END)

    Mike

    P.S.S. Please note that most of the occultists mentioned in this article are/were ALL Masons, including Hall, Mathers, Waite, and of course, Albert Pike.
     
  3. O.F.F.

    O.F.F. New Member

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    Jacob, you LIED again saying:

    As I have already indicated, and will now provide a MASONIC source of proof, my former Grand Lodge is recognized as legitimate in the vast majority of Freemasonry, to include the Mother of Masonry -- the Grand Lodge of England!

    Just because your Grand Lodge continues to discriminate against blacks and Prince Hall Masons -- to which YOU KNOW WD can, and will, confirm -- doesn't make your statement true, instead the following makes you, and your racist Grand Lodge, look like FOOLS:

    Prince Hall Masonic Recognition

    Also, it is interesting to note that the following link to maps show the clear dividing line of Masonic recognition, which are the states that made up the Confederacy of the Civil War. If this doesn't confirm the RACIAL bias, I don't know what else can. Jacob, folk here are not as naive about the truth of Freemasonry as you are:

    Maps of The Racial Divide in Freemasonry

    Mike

    [ June 04, 2004, 10:08 AM: Message edited by: O.F.F. ]
     
  4. Jacob Webber

    Jacob Webber New Member

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    I remember earlier you said no state in the south recognize Prince Hall Lodge and yet you post a site that says Virgina is in the South and Grand Lodge of Virgina recognizes Prince Hall Grand Lodge. Aslo just because Tennessee Grand Lodge does not recognize Prince Hall masons does not mean it rejects Africain Americains the Tennessee Grand Lodge states we have intergrated Lodge. People at my Lodge have seen African Americains in the yearly Grand Lodge Meetings. So we do accept Africain American members we just do not recognize Prince Hall as a Masonic body. And if WD can prove were he has went to every Lodge in Tennessee and there has not been an Africain American than let Him post it. As far as discriminate against PH Masons it does not matter if they are black or white if they are not recognized they not consider a masonic body. you yourself said PH was intergrated so that would mean according to you that my Grand Lodge discriminates against whites as well, but you are trying to turn it into a racal issue so you left out that part and said only blacks.
     
  5. frewtloop

    frewtloop Guest

    Mike, I agree with Jacob, it would be extremely helpful and would cause you much less embarrassment, if you would actually read what people post to you. What you just suggested in the above statement in no way resembles the material I posted. It appears as though you simply took one look at the word Kaballah, and without reading any further at all, launched into your diatribe on the subject.

    The kaballah is Jewish. I have never stated, hinted, or implied anything to the contrary.

    The thrust of what was being said about kaballism in the piece I posted, was that until the lodge was opened to those of other religions, it had been thoroughly Christian in content, and that Jewish kaballism had entered into Masonry as a corrupting presence.

    Some further clarification:

    So it's easy to see that the accepted nature of Freemasonry, as it had traditionally been handed down, had come to be accepted as Christian in content, and the changes allowing other religions in the door were met with very strong opposition in a lot of places. And why was that?

    Yet another evidence of just how staunchly Christian Freemasonry was before the beginning of the 1717 Grand Lodge, to the point that several lodges would band together in protest against any relaxing of the Christian standards. And it was no mere "quoting a few Bible verses," as you always try to characterize it when any such thing comes up: they are insistent on teachings of the Messiah; insisted on the Bible; even insisted on the divinity of Christ!

    So very different from what you've been telling us, especially the part about it never having been based on the Bible at any time in its history. But of course, you do seem to major in contradictions. For example, you said above:

    Strange that you should mention this thing on a Freemasonry thread. After all, you cannot deny stating, emphatically:

    So in other words you're saying, "The dollar bill is laced with esoteric symbols---a statement which, by the way, I don't believe."

    What you say in one place and what you say in another don't quite seem to match up. I'm beginning to wonder what you truly do believe.

    TW
     
  6. O.F.F.

    O.F.F. New Member

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    Worm, from the article you posted it reads in part:

    This most certainly sounds like it is implying that the Kabbalah is Christian. My providing the Carl Teichrib's article was to show just what "new light" is actually being shed, in my opinion.

    You either misread the following from Teichrib's article as MY words rather than HIS, or you are deliberately trying to mislead and confuse the members of this forum.

    Again, this statement is neither from me nor O.F.F., but from Carl Teichrib's article. As your e-mail address says, you need to "getrightwilya!"

    Mike

    [ June 04, 2004, 02:16 PM: Message edited by: O.F.F. ]
     
  7. frewtloop

    frewtloop Guest

    Always standing ready to accuse, it seems. The fact is, you are the one who quoted it, if you don't support what you're quoting, then perhaps you should be quoting less. But "deliberately trying to mislead and confuse the members of this forum?" It looks more like you are trying to play the personal attack game once again.

    "In your opinion," of course, being the operative phrase. And if you must quote from things that I quote from, as a means of refutation, have the common courtesy to at least not do the whittling job you do on the material you quote from. You obviously, as I have already shown, simply narrowed in on one part of the whole, snipped it out of its context, and made it say what you wished it to say. But what I pointed out, and what the writer made explicitly clear in the discussion of it was,

    The usual fare from you. As your organization's title suggests, your posts are always O.F.F. the mark.
     
  8. O.F.F.

    O.F.F. New Member

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    Worm,

    As I have shown in Carl Teichrib's article, anything relating to the Kaballah is purely occultic in nature. If your theory is true, that Freemasonry somehow evolved from something even remotely Christian, to something that is now scarcely so, and is now more esoteric and occultic, than NO Christian should have anything to do with it.

    If you have any knowledge of the Bible at all, you should know that Christians are NOT to practice sorcery, divination, witchcraft, consulted mediums or spiritists, nor have anything to do with the occult whatsoever.

    This was King Solomon's demise, who Freemasonry places on a pedestal; he went from serving Yahweh (the God of the Bible) to consulting mediums and tolerating the occult and the worship of false Gods. In other words, he went from being the world's wisest man, to the world's biggest fool; and Masons are following his example.

    How dare you come here propagating your esoteric nonsense and try to label it as purely Christian. May God have mercy on you! According to Scripture, what you are doing is much evil in the eyes of the LORD, provoking him to anger.

    God is the judge, and He has spelled out in His Word the judgement on those who engage in such activity:

    Revelation 21

    "8But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars -- their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

    As far as I am concern, this thread can be closed now. I am finished talking to the likes of you and Jacob. At this time, I have a family death to attend to and will not be back online here for awhile.

    Meanwhile, your charade is coming to a screeching halt and is about to blow up in your face, as you will soon be exposed for the fraud that you are.

    O.F.F.
     
  9. Jacob Webber

    Jacob Webber New Member

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    Mike
    I will pray for you and your family I am sorry to hear you have a death in the Family. Just remember it is an chance to Share the Saving Grace of Jesus Christ with so of those there who are wondering about what happens after you die. I pray that you will be able to reach anyone there that is lost and with out Christ. Take advantage of every moment you have to share Christ so that others will come to know the Saving Grace of Jesus Christ as we have.
     
  10. frewtloop

    frewtloop Guest

    Nice try, but as I've already stated, mischaracterizing my posts will not work. The readers here are more intelligent than that. There's been plenty enough from that source for them to see for themselves what the history has been. They can also read what was quoted in my last post and see why the statement you just made above in relation to it is totally absurd.

    Actually, Mike, this only appeared to be more of the same stuff you already posted. It's not like you've never mentioned it here before. From the other thread which recently closed, your post:

    My my, how ironic, you were latching onto the esoteric stuff even then. A good place to put to rest the "masonic dollar" nonsense is
    http://www.savingsmagic.com/story/dollar.htm#hate

    And if you have the vast store of masonic knowledge you claim to have from your "personal experience," then you know as well as I do what a sham and a misrepresentation this is, and just how remote the above remarks are from anything that takes place in Freemasonic lodges. I don't have to know anything about Masonry "firsthand" to know this is a totally false, baseless accusation that has no foundation in truth whatsoever--and you should know better, and probably do.

    Are you suggesting the discussion cannot continue without you?

    TW
     
  11. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    Sounds good to me. The topic is closed.
    I normally would not say to not go ahead and start a new one, but this time I am asking that it not be restarted for about a week.
    Gina
     
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