Why?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by agedman, Dec 10, 2015.

  1. agedman

    agedman
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    This thread is on things that go on in church, or in a church service that distract from worship or service.

    For example:

    The worship "service" by definition is a place of not only worship but service. Recognizing that each member of the assembly can and should contribute as they have been gifted by the Holy Spirit and appointed to the task to be expressed with their whole heart. (Colossians 3).

    Such service should be expected and viewed by others as reasonable, holy, and a sacrifice acceptable to God. (Romans 12).

    And the service is a divine appointment in which the believer may know strength from God in the service. (1 Timothy).

    Yet, most assemblies have become so "performance" oriented, that folks would clap and even give a standing ovation for "mere service."

    To me clapping in a service in response to some "presentation" of talent is an offense of worship and of service.

    Another example:

    The casual chatter that folks engage in rather than preparing their hearts by quiet meditation. I attended a church in which the stage band was banging out so loud, folks were shouting in the isles.

    Such are an offense of worship and service and have no place in the presence of Christ.

    What might you consider a distraction from worship and service?
     
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  2. Iconoclast

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    Many such services are a moving of the flesh,and yet it is considered to be worship.
    worldly conversation before and after service.
    chronically late persons
    children crying ,whining , talking during sermon
     
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  3. Revmitchell

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    What is offensive to me is a dead church. A church where there is no energy, no life, no response of enthusiasm to the worship of God. I want to see people who sing with energy to God and a response from others to that song of worship to God that appreciates and takes great joy in what has happened. There are times we should be in quiet preparation and other times when we should be expressive of the emotions God has given us to use to worship Him.

    I want to see preaching by someone who is passionate about God's word with all the emotion that is swirling around in him because of God, our salvation, freedom and victory in Christ. I also want to see an emotional response from those who are receiving that word of God. Emotions brought about because of the goodness, the greatness, the power and majesty of God.

    .
     
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  4. agedman

    agedman
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    There must be balance, no doubt.

    But some mistake "singing with energy" and look for "an emotional response" as some evidence that God is at work.

    I very much like that statements you made:
    "I also want to see an emotional response from those who are receiving that word of God. Emotions brought about because of the goodness, the greatness, the power and majesty of God."

    This is God working in the midst, changing, aligning, and assessing each believer.

    Too often, though, the typical modern church has some kind of ministry team that stirs up the people rather than the Word of God.
     
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  5. Revmitchell

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    And there is nothing wrong with that. There is no difference between people being stirred up by singing God's praises done well or preaching God's word done well. Both should be done grounded in scripture or not at all.
     
  6. agedman

    agedman
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    But, there is a difference!

    IF there is not just the grounding in Scriptures, but the exaltation of Scriptures, the placing of Scriptures as the total focus of every aspect (even the announcements) then the worship service is second class at best.

    One should not expect the emotion driven, puffed up, song service and media presentations to prepare the hearts of folks to worship.

    Not a single aspect of worship should focus upon someone (especially the presenter) as to be praised - all praise and honor belong to God.
     
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  7. Revmitchell

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    Even the announcements? Look, there are things in the service that includes taking care of day to day things. Saying that those are somehow an imposition on true worship is just not provable. What may distract you may not be an issue for any number of other people. I think we need to be careful not to assign motives on people based on what we like or dislike personally.

    Just because someone does not like they way people respond to some kinds of singing in the church does not prove that those people engaged in that type of singing that the one person does not like are not truly worshiping God nor can they. We need to be very careful of assigning motives in that fashion.
     
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  8. agedman

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    Certainly. Unless it pertains directly to worship, folks can read the announcements on a bulletin board in the hallway, or through some web program. But if it is not directly related to the worship, it should not be included.

    Announcing Fred and Wanda had a baby is important IF there is prayer offered at that time for the couple to raise the child in the Lord.

    Announcing tryout for choir doesn't belong.

    Announcing dinner on the ground doesn't belong, unless it includes prayer that no one gets sick from Aunt Sally's chicken salad. :)

    I agree, which is why the focus needs to remain as specific as possible upon worship and eliminating any extraneous stuff.
    I agree.

    There are those who would dispute that worship can be found outside of some narrow assignment.

    This is why the focus must be singular. The Scriptures.

    Not upon performance, people, things, events, or even the time.

    When a people praise each other for something done that should be considered "reasonable service" the focus is far from Scriptures. That isn't a judgment of motives, it is exposing the truth.
     
  9. Revmitchell

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    Sorry brother you are assigning motives that cannot be proven. Further, there are other possibilities as to their motives. Those actions do not prove only one kind of motive and can in fact be born out of a true desire to glorify God. I'm sorry but your accusations of those types of people are not reasonable but instead they are based on personal preference.

    Psa_150:4 Praise him with tambourine and dance; praise him with strings and pipe!
     
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  10. agedman

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    I knew that the Psalms would be brought up.

    What better way to demonstrate the focus of worship!

    Was there ANY mention of the performers being praised?

    Was there ANY glory given to the performers or the performance?

    Such has no place in the worship of God.

    It is HIS and the believers should not regard service in which HE has produced in both talent and strength as something to receive praise.

    Rather, let a solemn "amen" be whispered in prayer of agreement of that which is presented which is Scriptural.
     
  11. Gib

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    1) Those fancy wrist watches that go off at noon and folks wearing them don't have the good sense to:
    • Leave them at home in the first place or
    • Turn off the alarm before church or
    • Stop the alarm once it goes off :rolleyes:
    2) Same thing with cell phones. A lady's phone rang twice one Sunday morning, once during the choir special and once during the sermon. Afterwards I asked her if she couldn't hear it ringing. She said, "No I heard it. But, it was my sister and I told her I don't answer the phone during church." o_O

    3) Hearing aids that die and whistle through the service Biggrin
     
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  12. JonC

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    I always wondered why the offering plate. I suppose there is a history behind it, but I don’t know what that could be. In a way, it seems odd to me.

    Another thing, which is probably a bit more broad than you are looking for (sorry) is why churches outsource leadership. Perhaps this is not common across the board, but everywhere I’ve been churches looked outside (most of the time out of state) for a pastor, assistant pastor, youth pastor, etc. It seems to me that a discipling church would produce its own leadership.

    Anyway, those are my two why’s…
     
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  13. Revmitchell

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    There are a number of reasons for the "outsourcing of leadership. It certainly was part of the early history of the American church when the many rural churches used circuit preachers. Often young men grow up and recognize the call of God but so often that call ends up going to another church. Maybe they are right, maybe they aren't.
     
  14. JonC

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    I can see how a new pastor could feel more comfortable at a new church, and perhaps even lead more effectively. And I can see benefits of calling pastors from within the local church. And I didn't think about the influence of circuit preachers, that's a good point.
     
  15. Revmitchell

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    Sometimes a prophet gets no honor from home.
     
  16. nodak

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    wicked old me, I guess, I do NOT go to church to "worship". I go preaching services.

    The singing, the praying, the preaching all proclaim Christ (or should.) Let me get one whiff some song leader decided last week what emotion he wanted me to feel and I am out of there.

    Now, very often God does break in and I can get quite emotional.

    But that is very different from some cheerleader amping it up.
     
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  17. tyndale1946

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    Singing (acapella)... I'm the song leader, praying and preaching... We are a small congregation and this is our mode and practice of worship... It all about Jesus Christ as all worship should be... Brother Glen
     
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