1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Widows

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Walls, Feb 14, 2004.

  1. Thankful

    Thankful <img src=/BettyE.gif>

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2002
    Messages:
    8,430
    Likes Received:
    0
    Walls, my children began working when they were 16 and lived at home until they were married. When they married, they were on their own and they did buy homes with mortgages. We have always helped them when needed. Further, when I was a widow, they wanted to take care of me, but fortunately, I could take care of myself.

    Currently, we have a 21 year old son who is studying at the University. He does not have any debt.

    Thank you for that information. Maybe it will assist those who are faced with this situation and will plan for their children's future.

    It is very important that we teach our children how to live without debt.
     
  2. Headcoveredlady

    Headcoveredlady New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2002
    Messages:
    1,388
    Likes Received:
    0
    There are some in our area also. I found out what the Church thinks about the fatherless recently also.
    I was fundraising for the local crisis pregnancy center and sent out about fourty letters asking for four things:
    1)prayer support
    2)volunteer counselors
    3)donations of any baby items (even used)
    4)monetary donations

    I cried and cried when the president told me she received not one call. Not one call!

    So, then we changed our strategy I called many of the churches (we have a lot here). Praise Jesus two men out of about fifty churches responded and said they would tell their congregations about it.
    Another pastor called and said he wanted to help but his congregation is pro-choice.

    The sad part is that I received all kinds of excuses from, "I don't have any authority," to "How much time will this phone call take?" One Pastor the one that also has a palace type building never returned my phone calls.

    I just don't get it. [​IMG]
     
  3. Headcoveredlady

    Headcoveredlady New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2002
    Messages:
    1,388
    Likes Received:
    0
    There are some in our area also. I found out what the Church thinks about the fatherless recently also.
    I was fundraising for the local crisis pregnancy center and sent out about fourty letters asking for four things:
    1)prayer support
    2)volunteer counselors
    3)donations of any baby items (even used)
    4)monetary donations

    I cried and cried when the president told me she received not one call. Not one call!

    So, then we changed our strategy I called many of the churches (we have a lot here). Praise Jesus two men out of about fifty churches responded and said they would tell their congregations about it.
    Another pastor called and said he wanted to help but his congregation is pro-choice.

    The sad part is that I received all kinds of excuses from, "I don't have any authority," to "How much time will this phone call take?" One Pastor the one that also has a palace type building never returned my phone calls.

    I just don't get it. [​IMG]
    </font>[/QUOTE]Actually the above should say, "What the churches think about the fatherless."
     
  4. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2000
    Messages:
    17,527
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes, I agree. My dad's little church is a great church, and they really watch out for him. Now that he can't drive, they even come 12 miles to pick him up for church and drive him home afterwards. But they are all poor farmers or loggers. There is just not much money. </font>[/QUOTE]The first Church I pastored was a very small rural mission church in the mountains of Arkansas. Our Sunday Attendance started out with about 15-20 members. It was very rough in the beginning. Certainly there were several Churches in our area in the same boat. There were also several larger Churches with more financial Stability. In that part of the country, the Churches were like a family. We helped each other out when we needed it. There were times when we just couldn't pay the light bill for the Church and a pastor from another Church would pull me aside at an associational meeting and hand me an envelope with a love offering to help take care of us. We worked together and helped each other. Perhaps, this is where I get the idea of instead of the larger Churches helping themselves, both the large and small churches could pull their resources together to work together to do the ministry God has called us to. Both size churches have something they can contribute that is equally valuable. The smaller churches, true enough, ususally don't have much money, but they have food, skills, labor, etc...

    The larger Churches certainly have plenty of money judging from many of the multi-million dollar palaces they have built.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  5. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    15,460
    Likes Received:
    1
    Walls: "My Grandpa always said if you can't
    pay cash for it, you don't need it.
    How many Americans use that same
    philosphy today? "
    ________________________________________________

    The Financial Times reported that the average American has 8 credit cards maxed out. I guess that answers the question.

    There is a difference between borrowed debt and investment, and a mortgage is more like an investment. The key is to pay it off as quickly as possible. But the car you can afford and make payments to yourself, with interest, and you can afford to buy your next car with cash.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  6. donnA

    donnA Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2000
    Messages:
    23,354
    Likes Received:
    0
    Walls, I don't see in scripture where it says they have to be from your church. Are there no widows at all in your community? That would be amazing if there weren't.


    I'm not sure an 18 year old earn $10,000 - $15,000 being self sufficient, and not depending on the world for employment. You all must grow a lot of vegetables.
    I know from the experience of having two sons that there is no way of earning that much money as a teen.
    I think you have forgotten taxes!
    Where is he to get that further education but from the world?

    Do you have electric in your house? You must have a phone you have internet. Every month when you pay your bill you are already in debt for a portion of the next months bill. When you have utilities you are continually in debt.
    Just for your information, birth my sons live at home, one is 21 and the other 22. None of us have any debt other then utilities.
    Not once in nearly 24 years of marriage have we ever had extra money to save for a house, and we are used to living with the barest minimum, before our marriage my husband barley had money to live on himself, with no extras. Contrary to what you believe, not many earn that much money, we aren't all rich.
     
  7. Walls

    Walls New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2002
    Messages:
    802
    Likes Received:
    0
    Jim,

    I agree, investment is one and debt certainly is another!
     
  8. Walls

    Walls New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2002
    Messages:
    802
    Likes Received:
    0
    Donna I think you missed something. I did say bring home. That would be after any deductions.

    You have two boys at home. I wasn't aware of that. [snipped]

    Not sure what the minimum wage is in Ky but here my boys make $7.00/hr doing farm work. Surely, your boys are capable of a working a 40/hr week for minimum wage. Seeings how they live at home, they shouldn't have any expenses except for transportation purposes, unless you require them to pay for there room and food. And I don't think you do.

    As far as utilities, yes we have electric and we pay for it as we use it. Our phone we pay in advance, we got free i-net services with our computer.

    It wasn't until the World Wars that people quit having gardens as a major source of food. And that is because the women had to go to work because the men were at war. Amazing how things have changed in such a short time period?

    [ February 15, 2004, 09:30 PM: Message edited by: Dr. Bob Griffin ]
     
  9. donnA

    donnA Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2000
    Messages:
    23,354
    Likes Received:
    0
    Minnium wage is like $5. something, they both work as many hours a week as they employers will give them. Winter hours are not a lot. One has ever tried working two jobs. He is trying to fix his car, what little he makes goes to it, he has been take courses in auto mechanics. The other has a couple of mandatory month expenses,and saves the rest for car insurance. $130. every two weeks doesn't go far.

    Some of those women who went to work lived in cities. No gardens there. My grandmother lived in the city, and her husband left her(another woman), she had to work to feed her children(3 of them), she worked in a government tank factory. Living in the city all her life she had never raised a garden. When those women's husbands and fathers went off to war they were forced to work or have no homes and no food for their children. So I wouldn't work too hard at belittling them if I were you.
     
  10. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia Guest

    Minimum here is $5.37 Donna. High school kids never get full time hours and many adults don't either. The employers don't have to give them benefits. At Wal-Mart, if you work less than 35 hours a week, you can't even buy insurance.

    Diane
     
  11. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    15,549
    Likes Received:
    15
    There is a huge difference between what we need and what we want.

    I have been taught to never borrow money on things that depreciate in value over time. The amount of money you will have if everything were sold should exceed your debt.
     
  12. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    15,460
    Likes Received:
    1
    There are vast differences in living standards and wage allotments around the country. We have a minimum wage of $8.50 in Ontario, but most workers earch in the $30,000. a year gross income. Then too, we already have health care and a pension plan in effect, plus unemployment benefits.

    As an aside, I grew up in huge cities (London, England) and row housing, but we always had a garden plot in the back garden..virtually just a 4x2 of space, but we made it work. Even had enough veggies to sell to the barrer boys.

    Gardens were quite common at every house during the 30's and 40's....I agree that these things changed after the war.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  13. Walls

    Walls New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2002
    Messages:
    802
    Likes Received:
    0
    My grandmother lived in the city and had 6 children. She had a garden every year that she canned from and fed her family for the next year. She also had a grape vine, raspberry vine and a couple of peach trees.

    Why do you consider stating facts belittling?
     
  14. Walls

    Walls New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2002
    Messages:
    802
    Likes Received:
    0
    Amen! It is all in the way your raised, by the Bible standards or the worlds!
     
  15. Walls

    Walls New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2002
    Messages:
    802
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks Jim, I think the thing people aren't seeing is that they can do alot more to take care of themselves than what they realize. They rely on someone else providing for them.

    Look at all the people on foodstamps and welfare. It's just a matter of laziness. It is a whole lot easier to go to the store than work by the sweat of your brow. And of course you can't grow a twinkie or chocolate in a garden! :eek:

    Just incase someone says I am picking on them, I eat chocolate too! But if forced to, I could do with out!
     
  16. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Messages:
    44,448
    Likes Received:
    1
    I have really tried to stay out of this discussion, but I feel I have something to contribute.

    We CANNOT judge everyone by the same 'yard stick'. Not EVERYONE relies on someone else to provide for them. Sometimes, there IS no one else.

    When my father went to war, my mother went to work in an ammunitions factory 40 miles away. We did not live 'high on the hog'.

    We lived in a two room house...living room/bedroom and kitchen. No indoor bathroom, only cold running water and no car.

    All of the women in our neighborhood were working at the same factory (that's how my mother got back and forth to work).

    She left for work while it was still dark and it was dark when she came home. She had four children to feed and take care of before she 'fell' into bed. I don't know when she would have had time to tend a garden.

    I, myself, was widowed when I was 27 and had four young children to feed and clothe. I had to work three jobs (in addition to Social Security) to make ends meet. What little time I got to spend at home, I surely was not going to spend tending a garden. My children needed me more. As with my mother, it's kind of hard to tend a garden in the dark when you are 'bone tired' to begin with.

    As far as the church taking care of either one of us... Neither of us were saved at the time we both, respectively, went through this, so that wasn't an option.

    The church does not take care of the lost, only their own members. So what could we have done differently? Sometimes, we are forced to do things we would prefer not to do. I didn't work because I 'chose' to, neither did my mother. We would both rather have been home tending a garden instead of working ourselves crazy.

    We didn't start the war and I didn't kill my husband. Nevertheless, we were both forced into the 'working' world to feed our children.

    Methinks it would behoove us to take care of our own families and stop worrying about what everyone else is doing and stop being so judgmental of other people, and situations, we know nothing about.

    "But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters."
    I Peter 4:15

    §ue {been there, done that, don't want another t-shirt)

    [ February 16, 2004, 08:02 AM: Message edited by: I Am Blessed 16 ]
     
  17. Walls

    Walls New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2002
    Messages:
    802
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sue, I am sorry to hear your story. I am sure that in your particular situation you took the only options available to you.

    I don't get where you can imply that anyone is being judgemental. A different lifestyle is not being judgemental nor is it pushing ones beliefs on anybody else. Donna asked me how our church would take care of widows and I have answered that to the best of my ability.

    You know what, I have been married* for almost 18 years. My husband was saved less than five years ago. Before he got saved he was in and out of the home for a year to two year period at several different times.

    I had to keep the bills up, sent my children at the time to Christian school, take care of all the maintenance and be all I was supposed to be for my children. I lived in the city and we as a family tended to the garden and even planted apple trees in our tiny yard rather than decorative bushes. Along the fence row, we planted black berries.

    Was I dog tired, absolutely. I have empathy for any mom that has to have the burden of raising a family on her own. If I needed help, it came from my family or my husbands family.

    It is true that churches only take care of their own. When God commanded the children of Israel, He made provisions for the poor. Some where in the churches history they have missed the boat on this one.

    Should our church not support any widow we may have for the sake of taking SS? I think if more churches did there part, that would make it easier on everyone!

    * If you choose to question this, start another thread! ;)
     
  18. donnA

    donnA Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2000
    Messages:
    23,354
    Likes Received:
    0
    Isn't it funny how people fuss and yell about women needing to be home taking care of their children and be a keeper of the home and then fuss and yell and condemn when they need help to live because they stayed home to take care of their children.
    If they could for once just get this straight, which one do they want from people? And why do they think these women need to in anyway satisfy them?
     
  19. donnA

    donnA Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2000
    Messages:
    23,354
    Likes Received:
    0
    [snipped]

    [ February 16, 2004, 12:42 PM: Message edited by: Dr. Bob Griffin ]
     
  20. donnA

    donnA Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2000
    Messages:
    23,354
    Likes Received:
    0
    God din't tell us to judge why people needed help, but only to help.
     
Loading...