Wife convicted after husband fatally shoots lover

Discussion in '2008 Archive' started by dragonfly, May 3, 2008.

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  1. dragonfly

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  2. BaptistBarb

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    And she should be convicted.
     
  3. Joe

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    Goodbye Tracy Roberson :thumbs:

    If I walked into a similar situation and my wife cried rape while some guy was on top of her, I'd probably shoot him too.
     
    #3 Joe, May 3, 2008
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  4. standingfirminChrist

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    The husband still should have been charged with murder. His wife did not pull that trigger, nor did she call him home for that purpose.
     
  5. BaptistBarb

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    The court system rightfully saw it different.
     
  6. standingfirminChrist

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    BB, if you were the woman and the one who pulled the trigger were your husband, would you say you were guilty of murder?

    The man had other avenues he could have pursued. His anger turned into a hatred that caused the death of that man.
     
  7. BaptistBarb

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    Yep I would say I was guilty of murder. Just because she did not pull the trigger does not mean she isn't guilty.
     
  8. dragonfly

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    It looks to me like they are both guilty.
     
  9. Joe

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    What is the husband guilty of?
     
  10. standingfirminChrist

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    The husband is guilty of Murder.
     
  11. webdog

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    That's not the definition of murder. Murder is the intentional, premeditated killing of an innocent person. This was not intentional, premeditated, and the person killed was not innocent in the mind of the husband based on the immediate information available to him.
     
  12. Magnetic Poles

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    If the husband believed his wife had been raped, he may have been right to use deadly force. If he believed his wife was having a consensual physical relationship and shot the man, he is guilty. The right response to the second scenario is to not kill, but to leave.
     
  13. Diggin in da Word

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    webdog,a murderer is not necessarily one who kills with intention.Joshua 20 speaks of the avenger of blood chasing after one who kills someone unawares... or unintentionally. The word for killeth there is the word nakah which means, among other things, murders. One can be murdered accidentally by another. That being said, the husband should be charged with the murder of the man. There is no indication that the husband had been threatened by the man. He murdered him.This also seen in the word slayer in Deuteronomy 19. The slayer is running to a city of refuge because of accidentally killing a neighbor. The word for slayer is translated murderer here
     
    #13 Diggin in da Word, May 3, 2008
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  14. JerryL

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    As far as the man knew, the other guy raped her and he shot him. End of story. The one going to prison is the right one.
     
  15. Joe

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    As webdog said, this is not murder. In our ignorance, we should not be falsely accusing this man of murder. This is ungodly, and not being truthful.

    Let's weigh the facts presented with the law of the land (God commands us to follow the laws unless it conflicts with his law) and God's law as best we can.

    The US Code, at Title 18, defines murder as:
    "Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being with malice aforethought."


    mal·ice
    1 :*desire to cause pain, injury, or distress to another
    2 :*intent to commit an unlawful act or cause harm without legal justification or excuse

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/malice


    1. This man came home to find his wife screaming and crying rape inside a pick up truck parked in their driveway.
    2. She wore only a robe and underwear, not appearing as if she planned to be outside
    3. His children were inside the home. He had to keep this man from hurting his wife and possibly entering his home to hurt his children.

    Her not only being forcibly raped, but her being forcibly kidnapped had to enter his mind.

    He called home but there was no answer. Then he came home. Despite the danger, he risked his safety to defend his wife from a violent sexual criminal. He is a hero and acted within the law. He followed God's commands (see verses below) for husbands to honor and protect their wives as the weaker vessels. He esteemed his wife above himself.
    He had a more than reasonable belief that his actions were necessary, even though what he believed at the time turned out not to be true.
    Regarding malice...

    1. His wife falsely cried rape which resulted in the death of an innocent man.

    2. She lied to police and falsified a police report

    This is malice but they would also have to prove she meant for her husband to kill her lover for it to be murder. My conclusion.


    Imo, it appears the charge is not murder for either party. Manslaughter or involuntary manslaughter might be in order for the wife.

    1Peter 3:12 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.
    Phill 2:3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.

    1Peter 2:15 For such is the will of God that by doing right you may silence the ignorance of foolish men
     
    #15 Joe, May 3, 2008
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  16. Bible Believing Bill

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    The legal definition of murder can vary from state to state, therefore what is murder in TX may or may not be considered murder in IL.

    Most state recognize different degrees of murder, i.e 1st degree murder being as you defined it, 2nd degree murder being a crime of passion.

    Crimes of passion usually do not have malice aforethought.


    At least in IL and I assume other states you can be charged with murder if you are participating in a felony and someone dies as a result of that felony. There has been an example of this type of murder in the news here in Rockford lately.

    Four teenagers broke into a house they believed to be empty to steal cash and guns. The owner of the house was in the hospital, but he had asked a friend to housesit for him. While the youths were in the house the housesitter saw on of them with a gun and shot and killed him. The house sitter was not charged with a crime, but the other three teenagers were charged with murder.
    In the case from the OP. I am not familiar with TX law, but it would seem similar to the example I just gave.

    Bill
     
  17. pinoybaptist

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    From the short account in the link, it looks like the two-timing wife was having or just had sex with her lover, hubby comes home unexpectedly, woman cries rape, hubby shoots woman's lover, woman was found out by investigators, woman goes to jail.

    Hubby should have gone to jail for involuntary manslaughter (?), at least, not wife.

    Unless the investigators saw something which they presented to jury, and which the jury believed, that woman set up her lover and her husband, in the hopes of killing two birds with one stone.

    Lover gone. Hubby in jail. Am free, free, free.

    Didn't work that way, though.
     
    #17 pinoybaptist, May 4, 2008
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  18. hillclimber1

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    Well, apparently not, according to the article. We don't have enough info, but the man could be viewed as protecting his wife.
     
  19. Joe

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    True but not sure why we need to concern ourselves over that. I posted what coincided with Texas law regarding that case, and what the US Code Title 18 stated. There shouldn't be an issue here.
    True. But that doesn't apply here. BBers were saying this man murdered his wife's lover, this is untrue. Some even wanted to throw the book at him for murder without knowing what the legal definition is, and condemning him for what appears to be a man doing what the Lord commands him to do, protect his wife.
    The more we speak of criminal procedure, the more confusing it gets imo so I am only sticking with this case. And I have weak eyes today
    Incorect. If this case cited is from the state of Illinois, these men cannot be charged with murder under Illinois law. There is something missing here if they were, we don't have the whole story. Well of course, we don't know the story but you know what I mean. THis doesn't appear to fall under Illinois law as murder. The law I posted applies to the state of Illinois, I just checked. Since we aren't talking about Illinois here, I won't worry about it.

    Feel free to post the Penal Codes or legal defintion of murder for the state of Illinois to show the case cited above falls under their murder law somehow. It appears you are mistaken or facts are missing. If the man who shot the intruders was confronted with that situation by surprise, and the man inside the home had reason to beleive his life was in danger, as you say the intruder had a gun, then there is no murder. or maybe he could have got away and called the police but didn't so it could fall under the legal defintion of 2nd degree murder. Someone may, and I say may, have got a lousy attorney imo if this is prosecuted as murder. Something is missing here but we don't know the full story (unless you post it) Imo, Most people here know they must tell the Cops an element of surprise (at the very least) if they kill someone inside their home such as an intruder.

    It is similar, but not in the manner you stated. I posted links which show this to be manslaugher or involuntery manslaughter, though it is manslaughter. Not sure what you are saying here, maybe I'm slow but the links and info I posted coincide with Texas law. And again, your burglery story doensn't fall under murder, or any degree of it with regards to criminal law and the state of Illinois. But that is just my opinion from what you said and assumng he was confronted by the intruder (surprised) It seems it's manslaughter.
     
    #19 Joe, May 4, 2008
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  20. Joe

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    Texas Law

    § 19.02. MURDER. (a) In this section:
    (1) "Adequate cause" means cause that would commonly
    produce a degree of anger, rage, resentment, or terror in a person
    of ordinary temper, sufficient to render the mind incapable of cool
    reflection.
    (2) "Sudden passion" means passion directly caused by
    and arising out of provocation by the individual killed or another
    acting with the person killed which passion arises at the time of
    the offense and is not solely the result of former provocation.
    (b) A person commits an offense if he:
    (1) intentionally or knowingly causes the death of an
    individual;
    (2) intends to cause serious bodily injury and commits
    an act clearly dangerous to human life that causes the death of an
    individual; or

    (3) commits or attempts to commit a felony, other than
    manslaughter, and in the course of and in furtherance of the
    commission or attempt, or in immediate flight from the commission
    or attempt, he commits or attempts to commit an act clearly
    dangerous to human life that causes the death of an individual.
    (c) Except as provided by Subsection (d), an offense under
    this section is a felony of the first degree.
    (d) At the punishment stage of a trial, the defendant may
    raise the issue as to whether he caused the death under the
    immediate influence of sudden passion arising from an adequate
    cause. If the defendant proves the issue in the affirmative by a
    preponderance of the evidence, the offense is a felony of the second
    degree.


    § 19.04. MANSLAUGHTER. (a) A person commits an offense
    if he recklessly causes the death of an individual.
    (b) An offense under this section is a felony of the second
    degree.


    Voluntary manslaughter includes killing in heat of passion or while committing a felony. Involuntary manslaughter occurs when a death is caused during the comission of a non-felony, such as reckless driving (called "vehicular manslaughter").


    This lady would be charged with manslaughter
     
    #20 Joe, May 4, 2008
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