Will a Christian commit certain sins?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Amy.G, Feb 16, 2007.

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  1. Amy.G

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    In a thread a few weeks ago, the question was posed that if a Christian was to die in the act of adultery would he go to heaven. Bro. Bob stated that he would not go to heaven because he couldn't have been a Christian to begin with or he wouldn't have committed adultery. I have been thinking about this a lot lately and I think Bob has a valid point. (you thought I was out to get you, didn't you Bob? :))Are there certain sins that a Christian will not commit? I know that we all still sin even though we are saved, but how can a person with the indwelling of the Spirit of God do certain things that are just horrible? For instance, would a Christian:
    commit adultery
    commit murder
    molest a child
    commit suicide
    There are many other other sins I could list, but I think you get the point. And if a Christian wouldn't commit these horrible sins because of the indwelling of the Spirit, why then do we commit other less serious sins (for lack of a better phrase)?
    As a Christian, I cannot imagine doing these horrible things. What are your thoughts?

    I will be gone most of the day, so don't think I'm ignoring my own OP. I'll check back later. :)
     
    #1 Amy.G, Feb 16, 2007
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  2. webdog

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    Here we go again...

    I'm sure I'll come back from work tonight to 24 pages of more back and forth...

    My simple answer is "yes", a Christian can commit any sin a non Christian can.
     
    #2 webdog, Feb 16, 2007
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  3. IfbReformer

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    Where in scriptures do we find a prescribed list of sins a true Christian would never do?

    I have heard this argument before but find it utterly lacking in Scriptural backing.

    Peter committed what I believe to be the most hanous sin a Christian could commit, he walked with the living Christ, yet he denied him. Christ forgave him.

    I look forward to somone trying to prove from the New Testament that there are prescribed list of sins a true Christian would never commit.

    The fact of the matter, is that the most of the New Testament is written to Christians to tell them to STOP sinning, to yield themselves to the Holy Spirit - to put on the new man and put off the old.

    The very fact that is does this tells us that Christians still struggle with the old man, and sometimes we fail. Even in the so called big areas.

    We all struggle with different areas of temptation as Christians.

    For some they are tempted to worry, they worry all the time about everything(worry is a sin, because it is a lack of faith in God).

    Some Christians may struggle with greed, in that they need to see those numbers continually increasing in their bank account or they become worried.

    Some Christians struggle with lust, which may lead to looking at pornography or even adultery.

    Some Christians struggle with anger, which may lead to murder.

    Some Christians struggle with depression, which may lead to sucided.

    The issue is that sin leads to more sin, if unchecked. That is the challenge of the Christian walk.

    So for instance, its easy for one Christian to judge another who struggles with depression and tries to kill themselves - if they don't struggle with depression.

    Its easy for some Christians(especially Christian women) to judge Christian men who struggle with lust and may fall into pornography or adultery because they themselves don't have much of a struggle in this area.

    One person may have no problem with his bank account being very low, and may be able to empty his account every week into the church plate, while another Christian struggles to give even a small amount, because he worries about his finances.

    A Christian man in the heat of anger may murder someone, does this mean he was never saved?

    Again, I challenge someone to show the book, chapter and verses where there are a list of sins a Christian could never commit.

    IFBReformer
     
  4. IfbReformer

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    I just want to clarify from my previous post, that all these things I mentioned are sinful, and by no means should we as Christians condone or lessen what is clearly sinful behavior.

    The issue here is, are there are list of sins that a Christian could never do, and therefore prove the person is not a Christian if they do such a thing?

    My answer is no(not that I can find in the scriptures).

    IFBReformer
     
  5. PASTOR MHG

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    This is not a difficult thing to handle if we just let the Scripture speak...

    A Christian can commit all manner of sin that an unsaved man can commit, even horrible sins as you have described. A good example is the man that had to be removed from the fellowship of the Corinthian Church. This was a saved man as is clearly evident from the text. He committed what most would say is an unthinkable sin for a Christian...fornication with his mother, or at least his step mother (fornication/adultery/incest/dishonoring his father). Yet this man was restored to fellowship according to Paul's second letter to the church. Why? He repented and was restored. Was he a Christian? Absolutely...before and after the horrible act.

    How can this be? It comes from a basic understanding of how God relates to man at the point of salvation. Man is body/soul/spirit, but the only part of man that realizes the fulness of the redemptive act of Jesus Christ in this life is the soul. The body and the spirit are still awaiting the redemption of the purchased possesion...

    1Co 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin which a man may do is outside the body, but he doing fornication sins against his own body. 1Co 6:19 Or do you not know that your body is a sanctuary of the Holy Spirit in you, which you have from God, and you are not of yourselves? 1Co 6:20 You were bought with a price; then glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are of God.

    Eph 1:13 in whom also you, hearing the Word of Truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also believing you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, Eph 1:14 who is an earnest of our inheritance, to the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

    The body and the spirit (man's spirit) are yet to realize the redemption. They are still subject to the trials, temptations, desires, of the worldly influence around them. They still sin. Paul cried for deliverance from the "body of death" as he described it in Romans 7. He also told the church at Corinth to cleanse the filthiness of their flesh and "spirit" in 2 Cor. 7:1.

    This falls into perfect harmony with the account given of this man that committed this horrible act in 1 Cor. 5...

    1Co 5:1 Everywhere it is heard that fornication is among you, and such fornication which is not named among the heathen, so as for one to have his father's wife. 1Co 5:2 And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that did this deed might be taken from your midst. 1Co 5:3 For as being absent in body, but being present in spirit, I have already judged the one who has worked out this thing, as if I were present: 1Co 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, you being gathered together with my spirit also, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 1Co 5:5 to deliver such a one to Satan for destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

    You see, even though this man had committed such a horrible act that Paul commanded them to turn him over to Satan for the destruction of the "flesh," he assured them that his "spirit" would be saved on judgment day.

    So, as to your question about a Christian commiting these sins...Yes they can and they have and they do.

    Murder...Moses
    Murder & adultery...David
    Fornication & incest...the 1 Cor. 5 man
    Idolatry... Arron
    Giving place to Satan...David when he numbered Israel
    Willful disobedience and bitterness toward God...Jonah

    And many many more examples!

    I hope this helps.

    Max
     
  6. Helen

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    There is one sin that a Christian cannot commit -- the ongoing and conscious denial of truth, for that is the sin against the Holy Spirit which cannot be forgiven.

    As for horrid acts, theologically I suppose it is possible for a Christian to commit them, but personally I have a hard time with the idea that anyone indwelt by the Holy Spirit is going to deliberately do something which is so harmful to a fellow man (or woman).
     
  7. PastorSBC1303

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    I agree.

    Specifically with the adultery issue, what happens with the definition of adultery that Jesus gave about just looking at a woman with lust? By that standard I would venture to say that the majority of Christian men at some point in their lives have committed adultery.

    Personally, I believe that part of the maturing process of a believer is coming to the place where you realize that you are capable of every sin in the book. This increases the power of such statements of where sin abounds, grace abounds more.
     
  8. Mexdeaf

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    And if any Christian man says he hasn't done so he is probably guilty of breaking the commandment about bearing false witness.
     
  9. J. Jump

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    I'm not sure what you mean here. By this definition we are all guilty, because we all don't believe 100% Truth. If that were the case there wouldn't be any denominations.

    As for the OP I'm surprised Brother Bob hasn't answered, but in reading his posts it seems as though his position isn't that a Christian can't commit these sins, but rather they won't remain unrepentant of them. Maybe I've just read him wrong?
     
  10. Helen

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    Christ said HE is the Truth. All real truth thus will end up pointing to Him. Those who are already His know Him, and thus know the Truth. They are indwelt by the Spirit of Truth. Thus they cannot deny the Truth, can they?

    As for the sinful acts themselves, I understand that the heart may sin in its thoughts, but I still have a hard time (and that may just be me) with the idea that anyone indwelt by the Holy Spirit would plan and carry out a murder, for instance, or would rape someone. I'm sure our thoughts make us technically guilty of all kinds of things, but when those thoughts become actions, that means there was some kind of planning or focusing involved, right?

    Regarding the OT folks that were brought up before, it is my understanding that before Christ, men and women were not indwelt by the Holy Spirit. So there may be a difference between the OT and NT folk in that regard. If I am mistaken, please let me know. Thanks.
     
  11. Brother Bob

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    Who are you to judge another man and say he has committed adultery? Lust is to actually lust after another person, not to think someone is pretty. I think people are ugly also, is that an "unlust"?

    1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

    1Jo 5:18 ¶ We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

    1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

    1Jo 3:10 ¶ In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of
    God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

    12: Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

    13: Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

    14: For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

    15: What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid
    .
    16: Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

    1 Corth. 6:
    9: Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

    10: Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

    11: And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

    Here are some of them. are you thieves, fornicators, adulterers, abusers of yourselves with mankind (homosexuals). Well are any of you homosexuals?
     
    #11 Brother Bob, Feb 16, 2007
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  12. DHK

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    Then perhaps you had do a thorough study on this verse:

    Matthew 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

    And ask yourself the questioin: "To what extent is she pretty to you?"

    What does James say?
    James 2:10-11 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
    11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

    Where is this list of sins and what does it include: lying, cheating on your taxes, evil thoughts, anger, gluttony, intemperance, etc.
    All sin is equal in God's sight. It may not be in man's sight, but it is in God's sight. If you die of a heart attack, suddenly with unrepentant adultery will you go to heaven or hell?
    What about being in an obese conditon because of gluttony?
     
  13. Brother Bob

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    DHK; If you want to give the definition of lust feel free to do so, but we don't need your made up definitions. You contineously make up definitions to scriptures to fit your theology.

    And ask yourself the questioin: "To what extent is she pretty to you?"

    Not to the lust "pretty" as you seem to know so much about.

    You are the one who first came up with dying in the act of adultery and singing with the angels.

    DHK:
    He may even go to heaven while he is in the act of committing adultery

    Now if you are up here to start this fight all over again, then I don't want no part of it.
     
    #13 Brother Bob, Feb 16, 2007
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  14. Helen

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    He didn't have to make up anything to quote James:
    "What does James say?
    James 2:10-11 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
    11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law."
     
  15. Brother Bob

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    Are you saying I committed adultery also Helen. The made up part is his definition of what lust is.

    Helen; I responded to the quote about Matt. and you conveniently responded on James of which I think was deliberate, or you did not read the post very carefully.

    You or DHK or anyone else has the right to accuse anyone of committing adultery unless you see them in the act.

    1 Corth. 6:
    9: Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

    10: Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

    11: And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

    Here are some of them. are you thieves, fornicators, adulterers, abusers of yourselves with mankind (homosexuals). Well are any of you homosexuals? DHK; could you be in the act of Homosexuality and go to Heaven and sing with the angels?
     
    #15 Brother Bob, Feb 16, 2007
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  16. PastorSBC1303

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    Seems like you have a problem with Jesus and his definition of adultery, not anyone on this board.

    I simply made a statement that by the standard Jesus set, the majority of men in this world have committed adultery. I stand by that statement. Sorry if that bothers you.
     
  17. Brother Bob

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    No, I have no problem with it. Also, I am not guilty of it, but according to your answer, it seems you may be but I am not sure. Are you saying you are guilty of adultery? What about abuser of yourself with mankind?

    Why not just give some answers instead of accusing?

    1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

    1Jo 5:18 ¶ We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

    1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

    1Jo 3:10 ¶ In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of
    God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

    12: Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

    13: Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

    14: For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

    15: What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid
    .
    16: Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
     
    #17 Brother Bob, Feb 16, 2007
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  18. His Blood Spoke My Name

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    To use Peter as an instance to say the Christian will commit heinous crimes in not good. I can find nowhere in Scripture to indicate that Peter was saved before the cross.

    Yes, Peter was an Apostle. But so was Judas (Matthew 10), and we know for a surety that Judas was unsaved.

    As a matter of fact, Jesus spoke to Peter at one point and told him,
    The Word of God tells us
    That word 'remission' is translated pardon or deliverance in the original Greek.

    Christ's blood had not been shed yet, so Peter's sins could not have been pardoned yet.

    Peter companied with and followed Christ, yet in the time of Christ's arrest and crucifixion, Peter and all the other Apostles denied Him. They forsook Him and fled.

    They were not converted until after the cross, after the resurrection. It was after that that the eleven Apostles truly were saved.
     
  19. Helen

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    Brother Bob, no one here is accusing you or anyone else of anything personally. The point has been made that we are judged by God in terms of our hearts, which is why Jesus pointed to the roots of lust and murder as being heart issues.

    for ALL of us: if the shoe fits.....

    I don't know why you are being so defensive. It is the Bible which tells us how we are to be judged....and by Whom....
     
  20. rbell

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    This thread, and the 22,197,122.5 threads like it, end up dwelling on sins such as murder, homosexuality, and adultery.

    Why don't we leave those "hot button" ones and mention a few of the other sins mentioned in the oft-stated passages: lying and thievery are mentioned. Can a Christian commit them? Yep. Then it stands to reason that a Christian can commit the others.

    But, of course, if they are a child of God, his chastening will be sure, and it won't be pleasant.

    I do put "Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit" in a different class, because Jesus did.
     
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