Will A Man Rob God?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by standingfirminChrist, Jul 13, 2008.

  1. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist
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    [FONT=&quot] Will A Man Rob God?
    A closer look at the tithe[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Ronald W. Robey[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​
    [FONT=&quot]On any given Sunday, there will be Pastor’s who will stand behind the pulpit and will preach a well-known message out of the 3rd Chapter of the last book of the Old Testament, Malachi.

    “Will a man ROB GOD?,” will boom through the air with emphasis on ‘rob God.’ Many preacher’s will put the emphasis on ‘rob God’ to instill an automatic fear into the very minds of the hearer. It causes the automatic cringing of the people the preacher wants to put in a spirit of condemnation.

    “Yet YOU HAVE ROBBED ME. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse: for YE HAVE ROBBED ME, even this whole nation.”

    Every single believer in the congregation who is not placing money in a tithe envelope and placing it in the offering plate is automatically pointed out by this man (figuratively) who is supposed to be speaking for God as being robbers and are therefore under a curse which will NEVER BE LIFTED as long as one is disobedient to God.

    This is why it is important for each and every person who has been adopted into the family of God by faith in the substitutionary blood of Jesus Christ on the cruel cross of Calvary to “Study to shew thyself approved unto God a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth. Jesus said in John 17 during His prayer to His Father acknowledging all that the Father gave Him these wonderful words that we all need to embrace and realize that He wants us to study diligently; “Sanctify them through Thy Truth; Thy Word is Truth.”

    Once we learn that it is God’s Holy Word that sanctifies, that sets us apart from the world, that separates us from false teachings, then we have a responsibility to study that Word and begin to apply its truths to our walk. When we walk according to the Word of God, we will not be so easily swayed by preachers who do not study as they should.

    Oh, but the preacher has doctorates given him by a famous seminary that has turned out many wonderful men of God! Don’t be fooled, Brethren. The only thing that will turn out a wonderful man of God is God Himself.

    And the best place to go to learn who God is and what He expects of man is to the very Words of God… The Holy Bible.

    In the accusation of man robbing God in today’s Christian community, a charge is generally given out of Malachi that not only was not speaking of money, but it was not speaking of the Gentile nations at all.
    The Gentile nations were not required to tithe according to God's Word.

    Let’s begin to look into the passage and learn what God is truly addressing when the prophet Malachi said “Will a man rob God? But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.”
    First off, we must address who is being spoken to in the passage. It will shock many to realize that it was to the Israelite’s.

    Look at verse five:

    Malachi 3:5 And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me, saith the LORD of hosts.

    Clearly, God is speaking about specific people here that are doing the robbing! Those who oppress or defraud their employees (servants), those who defraud the widows, the orphans, and that turn aside the stranger from his right. To see exactly what is meant here since it is speaking of tithes, we must go into the Book of Deuteronomy:

    Deuteronomy 14:22-29 Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year. And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always. And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee: Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose: And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household, And the Levite that is within thy gates; thou shalt not forsake him; for he hath no part nor inheritance with thee. At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates: And the Levite, (because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee,) and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest.

    Here, we learn more than just one wonderful truth.

    1. We learn that the tithe was “all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.” The tithe was a yearly event, not weekly.
    2. We learn that the tithe was to be eaten.
    3. We learn that the purpose of the tithe is that the Israelites learn to revere the LORD their God.
    4. If the tithe was too heavy to carry to the destination that the Lord had chose to place His name, the tithe could be sold for money. This tells us the tithe was not money as many have been taught in many Churches across the world.
    5. Once the tither arrived at the destination that the Lord had chose to place His name, the money was to be used to buy the tithe that was to be eaten there before the Lord.
    6. On every 3rd year, the tithe was not to be taken to the Levite’s who worked in the Tabernacle, but rather, the tithe was to be kept on one’s own property to feed the Levite that was living on one’s property, the widow, the orphans, and any stranger that happened to be on one’s land at the time of the tithe. These people were fed the third year tithe.
    7. The Levite's that worked at the Tabernacle were the only one's who were qualified to receive the tithe of the tither for the sole purpose of their sustenance. The tithe was to be given to them because they were not allowed to own their own any property on which they could raise crops or herd livestock.

    If the principle set forth in the Book of Deuteronomy was followed, the LORD God promised to bless the one who tithed of the work of his hand.

    When one reads Malachi 3:5 in light of Deuteronomy 14:22-29, we see that Malachi was addressing the tither who was not following God’s command concerning the 3rd year tithe!.

    When God said, Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it, He was telling the tither to take his grains and meats, his foodstuff, into the barn so that there would be food for the Levite, the widow, the orphan, and the stranger living on the tither’s land.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot] If the tither would do this, God would cause the windows of heaven to open, the rain to fall, and the crops to increase in such a way that the tither would have more than he needed for his own self.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
     
  2. Gershom

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    Amen! :godisgood:
     
  3. LeBuick

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    You sure used a small font for a guy that can't see. I had to paste this in word then increase the font so I could read it.

    I think the above statement is not entirely true and takes the writer down the wrong road. Before there was Judaism God did interact with man via the priesthood of Melchisedec. Some believe his priesthood guided the giving of Cane and Abel. Melchisedec was not a Jewish priest nor was he a representative of the law yet under the priesthood of Melchisedec the writer of Hebrews was careful to record this for our understanding;

    Heb 7:1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
    2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;

    I say this merely to point out tithing existed before the law so I don't see how it can be removed or abolished because we are no longer under the law.

    This also cast a shadow on everything this guy was saying about the 3rd year and what is written in Deut etc... I think he is looking through the law with tunnel vision.

    Now I will grant he is right about the grains and meats etc... This is what the congregation had so was what they brought for a tithe. You cant bring what you don't have and money was something they didn't have. I recall my Dad preaching revivals in Louisiana when I was a boy and he'd come home with bushels of snap peas, chickens, pork etc... That is what the people had so is the tenth they brought to the Lord. Not many in the Church grow grain or live stock these days but if that is the fruit of your labor then by all means bring your tenth to the Lord. The Lord can and will use whatever you bring. If enough people begin tithing in this manner then I suppose we'd have to build a place to store it or a "storehouse".

    Now I am hoping you will permit me to say SFIC, the Lord only wants cheerful givers and not ones who give grudgingly or of necessity. He wants givers to give as He purposeth in their hearts. If he does not purposeth you to tithe or if that word puts a bad taste in your mouth then don't tithe. The Bible has your back covered. It's just not right for you to continually poke at what God has purposeth in others hearts. I tithe because the Lord has placed on my heart to tithe and I believe the bible covers my back also.

    Can't we all just get along?
     
  4. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist
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    They didn't have money?

    Read Deuteronomy 14:26.

    Were the tithes not sold for money?

    Money was around way before the tithe. It was even around before Abraham's tithe. Genesis 13 tells us Abraham was rich in silver, gold, and cattle.

    Oh, they had money.

    As to Melchizadek, careful study of history will show pagans tithed during that time and that Abraham's tihte to Melchizadek was mimicking the tenth that pagan's gave to their false deities.

    Also, according to Numbers, God only required 1% of the spoils of war, not 10%.

    Abraham was a priest himself and built altars and sacrificed.

    There is no Scriptural account of Abraham tithing except that one solitary time.

    Deuteronomy records in the 14th chapter that every third year tithe was to be eaten by the Levite that lived on the tither's land, the widow, orphans, and strangers.

    We cannot change that.

    Also the giving is according as the man purposeth in his own heart, not as the Lord purposeth in his heart. The Lord is not mentioned in 2 Corinthians 9 until the latter part of verse 7... after Paul said man is to give according as he purposeth in his heart.

    2 Corinthians 9:6-7 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

    btw, the 'he' you are referring to when you say 'he's right...' is me. I wrote the OP after many months of study on the topic of tithe.

    Tithe was never money and there is no Biblical account of it changing to money. So, you say you tithe? Or are you mistaking an offering for what you think is a tithe but according to the Word of God is not?
     
    #4 standingfirminChrist, Jul 14, 2008
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2008
  5. LeBuick

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    You missed what I said, I said money was not the fruit of their labor. The person giving the tithe didn't have money. Yes, they could have sold the fruits of their labor and got money to tithe but why?

    True even though silver gold and cattle are not money. Money was around. The problem was few people had any.

    This I absolutely disagree with. Why would the mimicking actions of the father of the faith make God's word. Perhaps Abram did mimic some of the pagan actions but I wouldn't expect to find them in the Bile nor would I expect the priest to go along.

    I said priesthood not priest...

    That "solitary verse" in Heb was expounding on a story from Gen;

    Ge 14:17 And the king of Sodom went out to meet him after his return from the slaughter of Chedorlaomer, and of the kings that were with him, at the valley of Shaveh, which is the king's dale.
    18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.
    19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:
    20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.

    Correct, this was in the law. I showed you there was tithing other than the law.

    It depends on how you interpret the word He. I believe it is God who puts obedience on our hearts.
     
  6. LeBuick

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    Are you suggesting a rich man went and bought grain so he could tithe? Not sacrifice, tithe? How would that be the fruit of his labor if he exchanged it to something other than what God blessed him with?

    No, I believe an offering is what you give above your tithe. That is my belief, you can give yours as an offering and I don't think anyone would argue with you.
     
  7. standingfirminChrist

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    "Let every man give as 'he' purposeth in his heart."

    Paul was speaking of the man as 'he', not God. Read the previous verses. God is not the subject that the 'he' is accentuating.

    The tithe given by Abraham was of the spoils of war, not personal property. Abraham was never said to have tithed his own property.

    Money was not mentioned as a tithe in Deuteronomy 14 because the tithe was never money. Read the whole chapter. In the first few verses, God establishes what the tithe is... crops, flocks and herds.

    Also, silver and gold was money. do a careful study of silver in the Old Testament. Also gold. It was used as money. Abraham bought a parcel of land for an hundred shekels of silver. Money.

    Also, if money could be used as a tithe, God would not have commanded to buy "sheep, oxen, wine, strong drink, whatsoever thy soul lusteth after" for a tithe. They could have given the money as a tithe.

    No, the fact remains money was never tithed.
     
    #7 standingfirminChrist, Jul 14, 2008
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2008
  8. LeBuick

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    Here is the definition of a tithe;

    Dt 14:22 Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.

    You tithe of your increase, fruit of your labor etc... In this case it came from the field so they brought that increase which God blessed them with from the field.

    God was making a concession for those who lived far away.

    Dt 14:22 Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.
    23 And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.
    24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
    25 Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:
    26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

    The verse is saying if you live too far for it to be practicle to bring the actual tithe, change it into money then back to the fruit of your labor when you get to the place God chose. This was the same scene where Jesus overturned the money changers table in the Temple. Again, you tithe of your increase, fruit of your labor, blessing from the Lord etc... My fruit is money so I tithe money. If my fruit was wine I could tithe wine. If I grew grain I could tithe grain.

    Scripture doesn't tell us to go buy a bag of rice and lay it on the alter but if that's what God put in your heart then by all means do it. As long as you do it cheerfully it will be accepted. No matter what you call it...
     
  9. standingfirminChrist

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    Scripture doesn't tell us to tithe, period!.

    The tithe was for the land of Israel... nowhere else. God did not put in His Word that He extended the tithe beyond the land of Israel, did He?

    Also, the Levite's were the only one's qualified to receive a tithe.

    Now, unless you can prove that you are a Levite, or that your pastor is a Levite, neither of you is qualified to receive tithe according to the Word of God.
     
  10. Amy.G

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    Are we not under the NEW covenant? Paul instructed the church to give from a cheerful heart.

    2Cr 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, [so let him give]; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.


    I don't think there is one mention of new testament saints giving a tithe. Surely Paul would have included it in instructions to the church because it consisted of Jews and Gentiles, who would have known nothing of tithing.
     
  11. standingfirminChrist

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    Tithing is only mentioned briefly in the New Testament.

    The first occasion mirrors the second. Matthew 23:23 and then Luke 11:42.

    In both of these passages, Jesus commends the Pharisee for tithing grains and spices. Surely the Pharisee had money, wouldn't you think? And yet, Jesus never mentioned that the Pharisee tithed money!

    Surely if money was to be tithed, Jesus would have told the Pharisee he left money out, but no, he had tithed right, but neglected the weightier matters of the law... which also had nothing to do with money.

    Then, the author of Hebrews mentions tithes again. And this time it is of the spoils of war and not of Abraham's own property.

    Surely if money was a required tithe, the New Testament would have recorded it for those God wanted to be in obedience.

    But, it did not.
     
  12. superwoman8977

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    Well maybe I am off but seeing that in Malachi about will a man rob God, yet you rob Me? Wow, that hit me so hard. I never used to tithe, I will admit it, but reading that verse one night during my devotion time changed all that for me. Everything I have been through the last few months, I have remained faithful in my tithe and He has continued to bless my paths. I have not ran out of money and everytime there is a need, he fulfills it, sometimes not as quick as I would like Him to but He always comes through. For the first time in my life I am not scrimping and saving to make it through to another day I actually have here at the middle of the month all the bills paid and groceries bought and I have extra left over to get me through with gas and everything till the next paycheck. I am even getting to go home this weekend (4 hrs away) and see my family and will have enough for the gas and everything. I firmly believe all Christians need to tithe. I dont tithe everything to my church I tithe a portion, and then another portion to my church back home and then the rest to a couple of ministries I deem worthy. No life is not perfect but we need to give back to God what He has blessed us with. My pastor a few weeks ago put it this way--He is the Blessor, He wants to bless us and then He wants us to go out into the world and be blessings to others. If we can do that and be compassionate and cheerful about that then we are well on our way to being even more Christ-Like.
     
  13. standingfirminChrist

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    Since tithe was never money, am I to assume you are a farmer or a herder and the tithe you speak of is crops, flocks or herds?

    Is your tithe of your crops, flocks and herds going to the workers of the Church/Tabernacle? i.e. pianist, organist, treasurer, custodian, choir director, teachers, Sunday School superintendant?

    Are all of these workers of the tribe of Levi? Do they live on the Church/Tabernacle property or on your own property as the Word of God specifies the one receiving the tithe is to live because they don't own property of their own?

    In not, they are not qualified to receive the tithe according to the Word of God.

    sw, tithe was never money in the Word of God, nor is it money now. God didn't change what the tithe was, we can't.
     
    #13 standingfirminChrist, Jul 15, 2008
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2008
  14. Tom Bryant

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    Of course, they had money. And they gave that at the Tabernacle. Jesus watched them giving. That was why he commended the woman's mite. So they gave money. And it's a leap in the dark to think that the only thing they tithed was produce. The mention is of your increase without limiting it to produce or mustard seeds in your front yard.
     
  15. lbaker

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    SFIC is so right on this.

    The money they were giving that Jesus saw wasn't a tithe, at least there's no mention of it being a tithe.

    The only thing we have scripture for people tithing was produce and animals.

    To say they also tithed on money is a real leap in the dark.
     
  16. standingfirminChrist

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    Nowhere in that passage about the widow's two mites was her offering called a tithe. All were able to see her drop two mites in the same plate. She did not designate 10% of that to be used as tithe, she 'gave her living' as Jesus stated.

    What she gave was not a tithe.

    The means of our increase is anything today. But in the times of the Bible, people had increase of money as well as crops, flocks and herds. God's Word declares the tithe was of the produce of crops, flocks and herds... not of the silver, gold, shekels, pennies, or anything eles.

    The tithe was given to the workers of the Tabernacle who performed the daily duties. They, in turn tithed 10% off of that tithe to the High Priest.

    The tithe was never put into the offering plate to take care of bills. It was given directly to the Levites for them to live on because they were not allowed to own land.

    The land was solely for Israel and not for those lands outside the borders of Israel.

    We are not required to tithe.
     
  17. annsni

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    In my feeling, 10% is a guideline that we're not held to but is that too much to give to God? What are we spending our money on that we can't give up 10% of our increase? It's the least I can do for the Lord and His work. 10% is the rule that my husband and I have chosen for knowing how much to give to the Lord.
     
  18. standingfirminChrist

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    God wants 100% of what one purposes in his or her heart to give. nothing more than that.
     
  19. standingfirminChrist

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    If you feel that is what you need to give, give it with cheer. But it is not a tithe according to what the Word of God says the tithe consists of.
     
  20. superwoman8977

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    Okay I am totally lost on this because in Malachi it talks about money as well as what you are talking about. This being the 21st Century my tithe is money AS WELL AS...time, and giving of my gifts and talents. I mean to have a verse hit so hard and so close to home, just those words...Will you rob Me? Yet you rob God...wow...the tithe is about money as a part of the rest of those things. How do you expect the church to function without the tithes and offerings of its members. I think one of my biggest pet peeves is people who let that offering plate pass them week after week and never put anything in it, yet sit in that church and expect everything, expect to be fed and to participate in the programs the church has to offer. My family used to be one of those families and I made the decision after God opened my eyes to Malachi and what He wanted to show me from it that we would no longer be a "receiving" family. Instead we would be a "giving" family. I will not let that plate go past again without me putting something in it, even if I didnt get paid that week I still put at least 5.00 in it. I dont have flocks and crops and herds so I give what I have and thats my paycheck and 10% of the income I receive. Oh yeah and the word tithe means a tenth so I think thats pretty self-explanatory as well.
     

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