Will America Survive?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by HAMel, Nov 30, 2015.

  1. HAMel

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    Without jumping into a political debate here on the direction for which America is currently heading and why, when one considers all the Biblical references to the tribulation/battle of Armageddon it does appear to some this Nation is not referenced at all.

    Needless to say, as this Nation has drifted so far away from God and our heritage do you consider that we are on the way to total oblivion; considering we were once the bastion of freedom and a World Power for freedom; a defender of those cast into and under suppressive regimes that we will be reduced to insignificant status?

    Will America survive?
     
  2. Zaac

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    What heritage might that be? We came here and violently took the land from the people who were already here, set ourselves up as slave masters, judge and jury over anyone who didn't share our European ancestry, and built great wealth while standing on the backs of others whom we still insist upon undervaluing and marginalizing. So whose heritage are we talking about? And it seems to be the people who are supposed to be in Christ who are moving farther away from God. The lost shouldn't and can't be near Him.

    We need to be gone. If the wickedness being displayed by the folks who are supposed to be Christ followers today was allowed to be in place running the United States during the buildup to Armageddon, there would probably be no one saved. The US, with it's wealth and might, being led by Christians and non-Christians who act nothing like Christ, would be very much just in the way IMO.

    I certainly hope not. If what I'm seeing of the Body of Christ is gonna be what represents Christ, then I pray that He gets us out of here and removes any chance that we or the United States might have to negatively impact folks from coming to faith in Him.
     
    #2 Zaac, Nov 30, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2015
  3. Rolfe

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    Seriously, Zaac. Are you paid by this site to post what you do with the purpose to generate activity?
     
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  4. Zaac

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    Nope. Not everyone has to fall in line and view things the same way. Some want to blame the downward spiral on the unsaved. And I say the spiral rests solely on the shoulders of those who say they know Christ yet continue to treat others as though they don't while continuing to dismiss their behaviors as less than sin of which to be repented.

    The "stick our heads in the ground in the face of atrocities towards others" has been ongoing from folks who say they follow Christ since the beginnings of this country.

    So when folks say something like "take our country back" or "return to our heritage", I want to know back to where or return to when?
     
    #4 Zaac, Nov 30, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2015
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  5. agedman

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    As I have "aged" I have come to realize that others sometimes stink and like a fine cheese that I am all stink that is not the same as my odor is just stinky.

    What this world needs is more folks who stink like me. :)
     
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  6. HAMel

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    ...it would appear to me that Zaac needs a friend. One could also conclude that he thought he found a good friend within the liberal ideology but has come to have reservations. Coupled with having to admit any error some folks just continue on only to find their anger festering like a skin boil that finally becomes infected.

    As for me, I always considered our Lord "breathed" on those original pilgrims to flee their native home land due to the prosecution they were suffering by the Church of England and were "lead" to the land that finally became America. Not to mention that the Church of England fully enjoyed their domination over the peasants, much like the old Jewish Rabies did in Jesus day, who by the way demanded that Jesus be crucified and who were actually hindering the Lord's work. So, they packed up and moved for Freedom of Religion.

    Now, we have all these folks running around claiming that WE came over her and obliterated an entire nation of peaceful folks who grew and feasted on tomatoes and corn and lived in tents made out of buffalo skins. That all of the ills suffering by all of the peoples' from ALL over the world is..., somehow, the fault of my ancestors? Somehow that just doesn't compute. I mean, I never owned any slaves, grew any cotton, fished in the Mississippi, threw anyone out of their homes. I don't even know of any relatives of mine that even fought in our Civil War.

    Oh well, I guess I'm just to old to understand and have never been enlightened like some of our younger members of society. One thing for sure..., I'll never be a bleeding heart liberal. I've always paid my own way, owned up to my own mistakes and faults in life and never ever pointed the finger at another due to my own failures. Hey, I almost forget. Over the years I've worked several minimum wage jobs, too just trying to get by and for sure, the Lord has blessed me. What I never did do however was fall into Self-Pity Mode and give up. I kept charging ahead and finally secured a career. Well, that's what my generation did. ...my dad told me once that back during the Great Depression (he was a teenager) that if there was any meat on the table it because he went out and shot it.

    Oh well...
     
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  7. agedman

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    Few were the pilgrims that traveled with that group. Fewer still those that remained after the first winter. But what they began is far greater than the sorry mess called Jamestown.
    Our family did own slaves, were nearly self sufficient in living, were east of the Mississippi, were scalped and burned inside their lodgings, fought in the Civil War (both sides), were part of this continent from the latter 1600's, and enjoy a healthy relationship with native americans through marriage from the early 1700's.

    America has changed, no doubt.

    My father was born in 1903. He taught us how to work, and not complain, but find ways to make the work conditions better, cleaner, more pleasing. In turn I taught that to my children.

    What has changed in this land is the attitude that if there isn't meat on the table it is because the government isn't providing enough support.
     
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  8. Revmitchell

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    Just a point of clarification: The attitude is that if there isn't meat on the table it is because the rich white man is hording it and someone (the government) must take it from him and give it to those with whom it rightfully belongs.
     
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  9. HAMel

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    agedman, I was in error. I did have a distant relative that defended Harpers Ferry, W.Va., during the Civil War. My Great Grand Father two or three times removed.?.? Not aware of any others. ...I did have some relatives that brewed by the light of the moon though and, this for sure which I am most proud of..., I had two relatives at the turn of the last century that were Circuit Riding Preachers. They both preached in a church that still sits atop a mountain in a little community called, Arden, W.Va., a few miles North East of Philippi, W.Va. One was a Methodist and the other was Church of God. The old church still stands and now a landmark. Just walking into that old church is thrilling. ...almost Heaven.
     
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  10. Zaac

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    Tsk, tsk, tsk.Trying to type in a mode of docile tones and to make me into one of those "angry people" of whom scared, shut up in their closets hiding white folks are scared of kinda doesn't work for a whole hosts of reasons. It would appear that HAMel is hung up on GOP deflectology.

    No one said otherwise. Amazing how God can free one people from tyranny and they turn around and become tyrants.

    Guess that "Freedom of Religion" thing meant to them to kill the Native Americans and pillage their land. It must have been on the long drive over that they decided they would conveniently forget that God led Moses to free His people from enslavement. But watching that white line in the middle of the ocean road must have dulled their sense and convinced them that God freed His people to example to Christians to enslave others.Rolleyes



    There you go with that weak deflection. Try as you may to distance yourself from the privilege which those European ancestors have afforded ya, it just doesn't wash. I'll let the words of Luke Visconti answer this foolishness:

    The legacy of slavery has benefited every white person in this country–directly and personally. In a very gross analogy, if you run a series of foot races over 300 years but prevent 13 percent of the participants from learning how to run for 180 years and then give them concrete sneakers for another 80 years–but allow them full access for 40 years, it will take the 13 percent quite a few races to be competitive because the other 87 percent advanced their skills by practice and repetition.


    Life is not a foot race, but it is a fact that the average white person would not economically benefit from switching places with an average black person (black households average one-tenth the household wealth of white households). If you believe all people are created equal, there has to be a reason for this–and there is: racism.


    The first slaves were brought to this country in the 1600s. After slavery ended in 1865 (the Emancipation Proclamation did not free slaves in the North) and until the 1960s, African Americans lived under laws that overtly discriminated against them. In 1960, most African Americans could not vote and had practically no access to higher education. Although the Civil Rights and Voting Rights acts (1964 and 1965, respectively) addressed the legal issues, and legislation like the CRA opened banking to red-lined areas, programs to eliminate disparities have proved to not be adequate.


    Before somebody e-mails me with the old canard of “Nobody in my family ever owned a slave,” I’d like to retire that excuse with a personal example: Generations ago, my ancestors fled the horrible conditions in their home countries to establish families in the United States. It was never much of a question as to whether or not we could pick wherever we wanted to live, have access to college or get a mortgage. If my family suffered under generations of knowing that those doors were closed, it would take generations more to overcome that lack of family know-how. In essence, my family zipped right past people whose families were here long before mine. I never even questioned that Rutgers would be open to accepting my application, that the Navy would send me to flight school or that McGraw-Hill or Time Warner would hire me–and that when I was there I would be in the vast majority (there were less than 3 percent people of color in both publications I worked for). I never doubted my ability to start a company and had plenty of friends to mentor me along the way.


    If you go back to people being created equally, it is just math that a percentage of our country’s greatest minds were eliminated from the competition simply by fact of skin color, and by extension their families were denied the head-start of their accomplishments. Every white person benefits from this–even people who arrived to the United States yesterday.


    Unfortunately, this has hurt our country dramatically. If you caught black households up to white household wealth, it would be the equivalent of injecting the entire GDP of Japan into our economy. Who would benefit? Mostly white people, as the majority would manufacture the goods and services purchased with the “new” wealth.


    The good news is that many white people remembered and unremembered have done their duty and fought for freedom. White guys can take pride in fellow white guys like Washington, Franklin, Garrison, Lincoln and Lyndon B. Johnson (among others). Our country may be imperfect, but our human rights are still the guiding beacon of opportunity for most of the rest of the planet.

    http://www.diversityinc.com/ask-the-white-guy/how-does-slavery-benefit-white-people-today/


    Oh well. your problem, like so many other "informed" old white members of society who "call" themselves Christians is that many of you, #1, don't act anything like Christ. And #2, many of you take more pride APPARENTLY in your political affiliations than you do Christ.

    Deny it till you're blue in the face. In fact every last one of you on here can deny it till you're blue in the face. The evidence against you exist in your attitudes towards anyone and anything that doesn't bow to your political positions.
     
  11. preachinjesus

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    Of course America will survive...we're far more resilient than some believe.

    We survived crazier leaders and worse Congresses.
     
  12. just-want-peace

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    Zaac, I don't know you from squat, BUT, if you in fact accomplished all you proclaim above, then either you have changed since "then" OR you discussed(??) your beliefs in a far more sensible & civil manner.

    To my amateur psychological "couch interview" of you, you sound like one deeply frustrated/hurt/angry/disappointed dude.

    FTR, I will pray for the release of whatever demons are apparently afflicting you at present.

    (This is NOT intended to be a critical statement; just letting you know that I'm altering my path with relation to you on this board.Thumbsup)
     
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  13. Zaac

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    What did I claim to have accomplished or desire to accomplish?

    And you and a lot of your friends on here sound like angry, hateful people who either don't really know Jesus or have created a new version in your own images who meets your political needs.

    You need to be praying for a touch of the Holy Spirit that causes a whole lot of you to see your sin for what it is and in turn repent.
    Okay even though we rarely converse.Thumbsup
     
  14. HAMel

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    Zaac..., my intent with this thread was to glean different opinions over America and what part she will plan in the end times and "Bang" right out of the box here you come with your blame game, finger pointing and derailing the entire thread. I can't help but wonder if that was really necessary and why? I can't imagine anyone objecting to your presence on this forum but why all the nonsense? It's such a waste of time.
     
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  15. Alcott

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    Believing something "till we're blue in the face" would make us nonwhite. That must be why he said it.
     
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  16. HAMel

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    @just-want-peace..., right on. An altered path appears to be the only way to go.
     
  17. agedman

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    What stung you in the head? That post is so not appropriate, and is certainly not reflective of what I have seen you produce in the past.

    That post is just a really really big excuse, and there is not a single item on the list that keeps a single person of any color or background from success or making something of their own life. The 2015s is not the 1950s, and such excuses for wasting a life is fruitless and merely perpetuates the ungodly.

    I do not owe an apology for the action or inaction of my family even those in the present day any more than you owe me an apology for the thuggish behavior that permeates the inner city. We will all give what account is to be given as individuals, not as a collective.

    Rather than excuse, groups of a social or ethic background need to be realistic and deal with the culture attitudes that both refused and continues to refuse its membership to lift itself above the past. How dare some call folks like Condeleezza Rice, and others of her example, an "Oreo Cookie." When the supposed leadership praise and exalt those who desired to destroy and sow ungodliness (Malcolm X) rather than one who has actually done much and could be a living example, such speaks to the total collusion of that controlling group to that which is not responsible, equitable, or even in the slightest manner godly. There has been no end of programs and helps from LBJ's "great society" to the current "no child left behind." What has been the dominant response from people of all cultures? ungodliness and thuggish behavior.

    America is failing and will not exist as a nation much longer, no matter how many consider that resilience will prevail. Not going to happen. That is the law of sow and reap. Americans of EVERY breed have sown wild seed of anarchy and lack of basic respect. The America will reap a wild harvest of utter destruction. It was never a single group or race that was ungodly.

    All are guilty.
     
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  18. Zaac

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    HAMel, I gave my opinion and asked for clarification. By your second post, it was clear that you didn't like my opinion. Next time, why don't you just tell everyone what to say. Anybody capable of reading can see that YOU derailed the thread by trying to take a dig at me.
    So stop playing victim.Rolleyes I swear y'all act like something is wrong with your heads.
     
  19. Zaac

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    ??? I didn't ask you or anyone else for an apology.
     
  20. agedman

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    Not in so many words, but your post laid claim that in some manner the folks on the BB are racist, and that we lack the background empathy to understand what horrible things the white people did.

    I reject that appointment, and suggest that such an attitude is exactly why more folks of all cultures are no longer considering themselves as Americans. Rather, one has to be labeled _____ American. As if that is a point of pride.

    And what about those of us who are mixed race. Personally, I have Caucasian, African, Native American in my direct ancestry. In my immediate and extended family, we have Asian and South American.

    What then should the label be? Should I take the amount of "blood" as some states did decades ago as a determiner? What about the last name association, but that won't work.

    See, your whole post quoting some authority, is (imo) completely inappropriate and misdirected, and not at all raises to the level of what I have witnessed of your writing on the BB.
     
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