Will there be sinless people in hell?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Dale-c, Mar 26, 2008.

  1. Dale-c

    Dale-c
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    If those who go to hell are there because of their unbelief and yet Christ died for their sins and paid for their sins then is God unjust?
    He would be unjust to send a sinles person to hell.
    If all of a persons sins were attoned for on the cross then why is God requiring a second payment for those sins?
    Now you may not believe the cross actually accomplished an attonement but merely made it possible.
    You may believe that application CAN be made to anyone who believes but the application is not made to unbelievers.
    Fine. You can believe that with a level of consistency.
    I disagree but it is a consistent and just position I think.

    But to say that a person goes to hell with his sins paid for is to say that God is requireing double punishment for that sin (Christ and then the person in hell)
     
  2. standingfirminChrist

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    All liars will have their part in the lake of fire.
     
  3. standingfirminChrist

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    Yer right. It is a just plum ridiculous position you hold.
     
  4. Dale-c

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    Yes, and "The liberal soul shall be made fat" So whats your point?
    What does that have to do with this thread?
     
    #4 Dale-c, Mar 26, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 26, 2008
  5. tinytim

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    I would say this is close to what I believe...

    I believe the payment is available, but not appropriated until the moment of belief.

    It is like cashing in a gift card... There is money available on it, but until you redeem it, it is just a piece of plastic.

    You might have $100 on a Walmart gift card, but you can't call it a new stereo until you redeem the gift card for a new stereo...

    The payment for a lost person's sin is available.. but until they cash in on it, (Saving Faith) it is worthless to them.

    To answer the OP... no, no one in hell will have their sins paid for.. they have chose to pay for them themselves... Eternally seperated from God.

    God loved them enough to give them what they wanted..
    They don't want him, they don't have to have him... they get Hell.
     
  6. Dale-c

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    Tim, I do not agree with you on this but you have a just position.
    A consistent position.
    If I may say so a more classical arminian position if I understand it right.

    I believe in an effective Gospel. When Christ said it is finished, I believe He meant it was truly finished.
    Not that HIS part was done and now man's part is next.

    Tim, do you believe that Christ died for the sin of unbelief?
     
  7. Amy.G

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    The passover lamb was a shadow of the Lamb of God.

    The passover lamb was killed, but it's blood had to be applied to the door posts for death to pass by.

    The Lamb of God was killed, but His blood must be applied as well for death (spiritual) to pass by.

    In both cases, the sacrifice was made for the forgiveness of sins, but the blood had to be applied in order for salvation to take place.
     
  8. standingfirminChrist

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    Christ paid for all sins on the cross. He did not pay for just some.

    As I stated earlier. If I bought a new car, plates, keys, and brought it to your house and said I bought this for you, and you refused to take the keys, but said you did not accept charity...

    Even though you may have rejected the car, the price had already been paid.

    Well, just because someone rejects the free gift of eternal life does not mean Christ did not pay for that gift He was offering them.
     
  9. Dale-c

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    At least I am in good company!
    Like:

    Spurgeon
    D. James Kennedy
    Jonathan Edwards
    John Calvin
    Agustine
    Paul
    John Piper

    You may disagree but you can't deny that it has been an orthodox position throghout church history, just as Tim's has been.

    It has been and will be a debate that will never be settled this side of heaven
     
  10. Dale-c

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    Then did he pay for your sin of unbelief?
    Does he pay for the sin of unbelief of those who reject Him all the way to the grave?
     
  11. tinytim

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    I have never thought of questioning that. He died for all sins..
    So, without thinking too deep.. (my brain hurts tonight) I would have to say yes... he did die for the sin of unbelief. But as soon as someone believes, the sin of unbelief is paid for. OK, that was a mind bender..

    Let me get some sleep tonight, and I will think more tomorrow.

    It seems that SFIC and I are saying the same thing, but in a different way.

    I MUST be tired!:tonofbricks: :laugh:
     
  12. standingfirminChrist

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    You can scratch Paul off that list. He did not preach limited atonement.

    Reckon you are calling Jesus Christ a liar who said He would draw ALL MEN, not just some if He was lifted up.

    Well guess what? He was lifted up. He is drawing all men. But not all men accept. That is not His fault. He paid the price for all.
     
  13. Dale-c

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    Me too! I think I will go to bed now.

    It is always good talking to you!
     
  14. Dale-c

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    I don't think so:

    If I may draw off of your analogies:

    Tim says: Christ on the cross paid for gift card that can be redeemed to pay an unlimited number of sins. But the sinner must accept the gift card.
    The sins are actually paid for when the sinner applies the gift card and it is accepted by the Father as payment for the sins.

    SFIC says, Christ already pays for ALL sin but those who reject Christ go to hell, even though all of their sins have been paid for.

    Dale says: Christ paid a full ransom for all His sheep.
    He then brings about the means of regeneration and then faith and belief in Christ.
    This is effectual to ALL of the elect.
    From every nation.
    There is no respect of person by race or national origin.
    There is repect of persons who choose God because no natural man does recieve God.
     
  15. Dale-c

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    So you believe that Christ fails?
    He trys to save everylast one but is unable to?
     
  16. Linda64

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    1 Timothy 2:1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
    1 Timothy 2:2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
    1 Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
    1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
    1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
    1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
    1 Timothy 2:7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.

    The atonement of Christ was made for ALL...therefore, if one chooses NOT trust in the shed blood of the Lord Jesus Christ on the cross...that person will go to hell with their sins ALREADY PAID for. Calvary covered it ALL...not SOME.

    Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
     
    #16 Linda64, Mar 26, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 26, 2008
  17. Tom Butler

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    Is this another way of saying that Jesus' death on the cross secured the salvation of no one? That it actually accomplished nothing? And that he is powerless to save anyone without their permission? That from this day forward, it's possible that not another single soul will be saved, and God can't do anything about it? Just wondering if that's what you'e saying.
     
  18. Allan

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    No one is in hell without sin, such a position is unbiblical.

    Christ was the propitiation for all but not will receive Him and therefore will not receive that which He has procured because it is only given through faith.

    Those who reject His substitutionary death made on their behalf, will have to have to provide their own payment for their sins and it will be decidedly a worthless recompence and they will judged accordingly. Since their payment is worthless their sin remains and their guilt manifested.

    I would like to say - the Atonement by itself imparts nothing to anyone of itself. Scripture states it must be received through faith in order to justify us in Christ before a Holy God.

    If it did then you would be born saved and righteous before God. Yet scripture states we are not.

    The Atonment was accomplished therefore it was made possible to be received by faith.

    I look at it like this
     
    #18 Allan, Mar 26, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 26, 2008
  19. Amy.G

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    Jhn 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


    Jhn 8:24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am [He], you will die in your sins."
     
  20. Allan

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    Thank you for adding those :) It does help huh..
     

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