Will there be sinless people in hell?

Faith in Christ saves.

And,

Rejection of Christ dooms a person in hell.

 

I honestly wish I could speak in brevity like you do.

 

I take that as a compliment, Allan.

At any rate, I'm just summarizing what I see in all of Scripture. What do you think?

 

Yeah, and not just that, but I wish I could make my posts short, too.

 

It was definately intended to be one

It is the same thing I see from scripture, no question. We might differ on the mechanics but we are staunch on the truth.

 

:laugh: :laugh: I couldn't help but think of Giligan on Giligan's Island when I read that :laugh: :laugh:

 

I agree, Dale. It sounds like a verse from a hymn we sing from time to time:

If Thou hast my discharge procured,
And freely in my room endured The whole of wrath divine:
Payment God cannot twice demand,
First at my wounded Surety's hand,
And then again at mine.

​

Or, as John Owen put it:

For Whom Did Christ Die?

"The Father imposed His wrath due unto, and the Son underwent punishment for, either:

1. All the sins of all men.

2. All the sins of some men, or

3. Some of the sins of all men.

In which case it may be said:

a. That if the last be true, all men have some sins to answer for, and so none are saved.

b. That if the second be true, then Christ, in their stead suffered for all the sins of all the elect in the whole world, and this is the truth.

c. But if the first be the case, why are not all men free from the punishment due unto their sins?

You answer, Because of unbelief. I ask, Is this unbelief a sin, or is it not? If it be, then Christ suffered the punishment due unto it, or He did not.
If He did, why must that hinder them more than their other sins for which He died? If He did not, He did not die for all their sins!"-

​

 

If a person never heard of Chrsit, did he/she reject Christ?

If so, how is this so?

 

Its not a matter of "rejecting" Christ------------the matter lies in unbelief

Listen to what Jesus told Nicodemus in John 3:17-18

"For God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through Him might be saved. He that believeth on Him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

The problem is in failure to believe

If a person has never heard of Christ----he lives in the realm of failure to believe---the problem is---although he MAY never have heard of Christ--he is still responsible for believeing and if he dies having never heard---then he dies in his sins because of unbelief

 

This is worth a separate thread, but briefly:

Those who have never heard of Christ are not condemned either for their unbelief or rejection of him. They wll be judged for their failure to keep their own moral code (Romans 2:14 They are a law unto themselves).

 

Correct.

But the Bible doesn't say that (that people go to hell with their sins paid for). Jesus paid the penalty for sin. Not as if there is a master list in Heaven of all of Dale-C's sins (like God knew all the sins you were going to commit and how many times); but for each sin, actually for sin, period.
A better way to view this would be to imagine a master list of all possible sins, then put each of those on Jesus. Thus, whatever sin we go and commit today, whether murder, stealing, or adultry, Jesus paid for that one! Tommorow, it's disobedience, or laziness; Jesus paid for that one, too!
In this view, it makes sense that Jesus has the forgiveness for whatever sins you commit, but you have the choice to accept that atonement or not.
This also precludes the need for God to 'foreknow' all the sins we ever will commit, as if we have no choices in life. The penalty for sin is eradicated. Believe, and you're done! Isa 53:5

 

Agreed!

You seem to be saying that God is not omniscient - that He didn't know all the sins that Dale-C or David Lamb or Rubato 1 would commit.

But Jesus died for His people, not for an abstract list of sins that those people might or might not commit.

That idea seems rather strange - that God could know in advance all the sins that it was possible for a person to commit, yet not know which ones a person actually will commit.

Yes, praise God! As Paul and Silas said to the gaoler at Philippi, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved."

 

Hmm. So it would seem. Why did God 'repent that he had made man' if he knew what they would be up to ahead of time?
This does not mean he is not omniscient, it means that there are some things which are not to be known yet. We have not made some choices, so there is nothing there to yet know. I have heard it explained thus: Time is like a dotted line; there are gaps which we are to fill (hopefully within God's will; if not, hea lways has a 'plan B', like wandering for 40 years in the wilderness), but it all leads to a final destination. God knows the end from the beginning.

He died for sin. Period. (that's 3 periods )

All the sins of the world, yes. This is because there is only one sin, ultimately: lack of love for God. The free choices of the individual, not necessary to know ahead of time, the penalty for sin was reserved for the Lamb. Did the OT lamb have every sin of the nation of Israel quoted to it before it was slain? Or was it killed for 'sin'?

It doesn't get any simpler, does it?

 

There will be no forgiven in Hell, period.

He died for:

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

1 Timothy 2:3-6 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Jesus presented all His blood and body to God as an atonement for the sins of all mankind, but we must believe in order to receive that atonement. The same is true for those who have not been born yet. The atonement is with the Father, but when they are born into this world and come to know God and glorify Him not as God, then they are in need of that atonement to escape the wrath of God, which is to come, called the "second death". They also, but believe, to receive that atonement.

God has to have all the atonement so as to have it for the future, who is yet to be born.

BBob,

 

I view it like this. On the battlefield, two opposing armies are at war. One army has overran the other. The victorious General sends out a dispatch to the vanquished that surrender is in order. The conquered general must send a writ of surrender or rejection of surrender. If nothing is received then the victorious will continue the slaughter until all is dead.
If the victorious General leaves the vanquished alive without surrender then the vanquished is still in rebellion.
Should the vanquished raise the banner of truce then it is known that the will of rebellion is broken and the vanquished will submit to the victor.
Though Christ has broken my will to rebel I still must take up the recognized banner of truce, His cross. Now take up thy cross and follow him.


Matthew 16:24
24Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Luke 14:27
27And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

 

Christ died for the sins of the world, but to be saved you must believe and follow.

Matthew 7:21 (KJV)
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Mark 16:15-16 (KJV)
15: And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Luke 6:46 (KJV)
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

 

There is one sin that is not covered by the blood of Christ.


Mat 12:31 "Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men.


I believe this is unbelief, because it is the Spirit who draws us to Christ.

Jhn 8:24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am [He], you will die in your sins."

 

Notice, Jesus said 'All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men:...' "Every sin and blasphemy." I believe every sin covers all sin. Every is all inclusive. Blasphemy is separate from sin but still requires forgiveness.

'...but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.'

Christ did not call the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost sin, He just stated it shall not be forgiven unto men.'

Is it a sin? Or is the blasphemy of the Holy Ghost rejecting the work of the Holy Ghost as being from Him?

Scripture declares Christ died for the sins of the whole world, so rejection of Christ and His finished work apparently is not sin, but choice as your second verse points out 'die in your sins.'

They die with their sins paid for but not removed because they will not come to Christ that they might have life.

 

I find Paul to be instructive on this question:

"when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus" (2 Thess 1:7-8, emphasis mine).

Two groups of people are mentioned here:

1. Those who do not know God. Who are these?

2. Those who do not obey the gospel. Who are these?