Will those who aren't listening for the trumpet be left behind?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by LadyEagle, Dec 6, 2004.

  1. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle
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    What if the rapture takes place and only those who are ready and believe in a pretribulation rapture will be taken? What if the others have to go through the tribulation? :eek:

    Matt.25
    [1] Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
    [2] And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
    [3] They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
    [4] But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
    [5] While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
    [6] And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
    [7] Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
    [8] And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
    [9] But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
    [10] And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
    [11] Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
    [12] But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
    [13] Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

    Consider when else the "door was shut."


    Genesis 7:[15] And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.
    [16] And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.

    If it were true that the rapture takes place and you will be left behind because you didn't believe in a pretribulation rapture of the Church, would you change your mind about believing the post-trib doctrine? :eek:
     
  2. Grasshopper

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    If it were false would you consider changing your view?
     
  3. OldRegular

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    The Apostle Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians 15:51, 52:

    51. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
    52. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

    The Apostle John tells us in Revelation 11:15-19:

    15. And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
    16. And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
    17. Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
    18. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
    19. And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

    The Apostle John tells us that when the seventh and last trumpet sounds time, as we know it, will end. The Apostle Paul tells us that the resurrection of the Saints will occur when the last trumpet sounds.

    Therefore, no one will be left behind.
     
  4. OldRegular

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    By the way the 5 foolish virgins were unsaved. You dispensationalists twist everything in Scripture to fit your erroneous doctrine.
     
  5. LadyEagle

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    If it were false would you consider changing your view? </font>[/QUOTE]No, because pretribbers win either way under my above-mentioned scenario. [​IMG]
     
  6. LadyEagle

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    Maybe they lost their salvation. :eek:

    You don't have to get testy, OR! [​IMG]
     
  7. DeafPosttrib

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    LadyEagle,

    I will reply back to you on this tomorrow night.

    There is much twist what they interpreting on 'left behind' what these verses actual talking about. I will discuss with verses on this tomorrow night.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
  8. church mouse guy

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    Walter Martin used to say that he would be glad for a pre-tribulation rapture because Anti-Christ is coming and Walter said that he was high on Anti-Christ's list.

    So that point does not capture my attention.

    I believe in a post-tribulation rapture because it is the historic doctrine of Christians. Also, John makes it clear in Revelation that the first resurrection happens when Satan is locked up in the pit for a 1000 years.

    What does Matthew Henry say about the verses that you cite?
     
  9. James_Newman

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    Matt 25:8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

    Their lamps could not have 'gone out' if they were not at one time filled with oil and lit. They were saved, they were just foolish and they let their light go out. If you let your light go out, you'll get what a foolish virgin gets.
     
  10. LadyEagle

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    The foolish virgins got left behind. Sad. :(
     
  11. Johnv

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    Will those who aren't listening for the trumpet be left behind?
    I'm still busy listening to the trumpet that Jesus sounded in his first coming. :eek:
     
  12. Daniel David

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    The point of that text is only to say that you must be ready. The virgins don't represent anyone.
     
  13. church mouse guy

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    Here is what Matthew Henry abridged or concise says about the verses here:

    [[ MHCC MT 25:13 ]]

    v1-13 The circumstances of the parable of the ten virgins were taken from the marriage customs among the Jews, and explain the great day of Christ's coming. See the nature of Christianity. As Christians we profess to attend upon Christ, to honour him, also to be waiting for his coming. Sincere Christians are the wise virgins, and hypocrites the foolish ones. Those are the truly wise or foolish that are so in the affairs of their souls. Many have a lamp of profession in their hands, but have not, in their hearts, sound knowledge and settled resolution, which are needed to carry them through the services and trials of the present state. Their hearts are not stored with holy dispositions, by the new-creating Spirit of God. Our light must shine before men in good works; but this is not likely to be long done, unless there is a fixed, active principle in the heart, of faith in Christ, and love to God and our brethren. They all slumbered and slept. The delay represents the space between the real or apparent conversion of these professors, and the coming of Christ, to take them away by death, or to judge the world. But though Christ tarry past our time, he will not tarry past the due time. The wise virgins kept their lamps burning, but they did not keep themselves awake. Too many real Christians grow remiss, and one degree of carelessness makes way for another. Those that allow themselves to slumber, will scarcely keep from sleeping; therefore dread the beginning of spiritual decays. A startling summons was given. Go ye forth to meet Him, is a call to those prepared. The notice of Christ's approach, and the call to meet him, will awaken. Even those best prepared for death have work to do to get actually ready, 2Pe 3:14. It will be a day of search and inquiry; and it concerns us to think how we shall then be found. Some wanted oil to supply their lamps when going out. Those that take up short of true grace, will certainly find the want of it one time or other. An outward profession may light a man along this world, but the damps of the valley of the shadow of death will put out such a light. Those who care not to live the life, yet would die the death of the righteous. But those that would be saved, must have grace of their own; and those that have most grace, have none to spare. The best need more from Christ. And while the poor alarmed soul addresses itself, upon a sick-bed, to repentance and prayer, in awful confusion, death comes, judgment comes, the work is undone, and the poor sinner is undone for ever. This comes of having oil to buy when we should burn it, grace to get when we should use it. Those, and those only, shall go to heaven hereafter, that are made ready for heaven here. The suddenness of death and of Christ's coming to us then, will not hinder our happiness, if we have been prepared. The door was shut. Many will seek admission into heaven when it is too late. The vain confidence of hypocrites will carry them far in expectations of happiness. The unexpected summons of death may alarm the Christian; but, proceeding without delay to trim his lamp, his graces often shine more bright; while the mere professor's conduct shows that his lamp is going out. Watch therefore, attend to the business of your souls. Be in the fear of the Lord all the day long.
     
  14. DeafPosttrib

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    I am SO VERY busy! I will reply back tomorrow or Wednesday, to discuss on 'left behind' with verses, what these saying.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amne!
     
  15. lets_reason_toghether

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    Here is aquick thought

    that the kingdom of heavan is spoken throughout the Gospels and one point

    Matt 11:12
    And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

    Now this can't mean immortal glory but I more inclined to say that the religious pharisees and others of their day took the "church" by force.

    There is the kingdom of Heavan (church) which is LIKE UNTO, there is the kingdom of His dear son, the everlasting kingdom, etc. the context helps with discrening which one it is speaking about.

    also here is another proof text in regards to the church kingdom

    matt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
    19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

    Now, Christ is the Rock, but He gave peter to the kingdom of heavan. Now I do not think peter has got the keys to immortal glory. I think Peter was given authority as an apostle to excercise discipline in the church and heavan was in agreement. remember Ananiasis and Saphira? Now peter can't give eternal life...


    on the ten virgins, I think on the day that Isreal was judged for the recjection of Christ made an appearing and the day of pentecost made another appering by HIs vicar the Holy Ghost. God suffered (didn't judge) the rejection of His son but then judgement came in 70 AD and a warning was given.

    For those that headed thw warning and were perpared for the church kingdom (NT church) and most baptist beleive in baptism before joining the church..

    and the ark...

    1pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
    21 ΒΆ The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,)by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

    There is a salvation (deliverance in baptism) not eternally but a clear conscience toward God. and acts 2:47

    47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

    just a thought or too I have enjoyed the quesions
     
  16. lets_reason_toghether

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    to better explain..

    during the prepararion Mt 3:2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

    in teh same reference the ark was preparing. but to those that beleived and had their lamps prepated or ready they escaped the judement that God sent on Israel for rejection of His son.

    yes immortal glory is at hand one breath away... but I think the NT church kindom was at hand.

    Larry
     
  17. Debby in Philly

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    The foolish virgins were left out because they weren't prepared, period. They had the chance, and didn't take it. Same with those who perished in the flood.

    To be prepared, one must come to Christ, and receive Him as Savior and Lord. When He returns, however that plays out, the opportunity will at some point be lost.

    If the calling together in the air is pre-trib, praise the Lord for His grace that spares us. If it's mid-trib or post-trib, praise the Lord for His grace that will equip us. But when the events take place, I don't think any believer will be penalized because they didn't guess right.
     
  18. James_Newman

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    Who is Jesus talking to in Mt 25? He is talking to His disciples.

    Mt 24:3
    And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

    Mt 24
    42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
    43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
    44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

    I can't believe that Jesus was warning His disciples that they better believe in Him before He returns. He was telling them to be ready for Him. How could a believer not be ready for his Lord?

    Mt 24
    48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
    49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
    50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
    51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    This must be what the foolish virgins thought. They knew He was coming, but for some reason they just didn't get ready. Did they not think He was really coming back? Did they suppose that He would just let them come in to the marriage without having their lamps lit? Would He hold up the ceremony to allow them to go out and get ready, even though they had received their invitations 2000 years ago? See, these were foolish virgins.
     
  19. superdave

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    I believe that those who at least believe that Jesus really is coming back to establish his kingdom physically upon the earth are going to be OK, and the ones that are wrong will go when the rest of us do, before the tribulation.

    Of course, I'm just a nice accomodating kind of guy, since I also believe that elect Arminians will be taken to heaven by God too, even if they don't want to go. :D
     

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