Willful Ignorance?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Trotter, Apr 5, 2004.

  1. Trotter

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    I have come to see a trend in a lot of the posts made on this forum by the supporters of "King James Version Only", and it disturbs me. Normally I would just brush it off and move on, but I am truly concerned about the whole situation.

    Since when did willful ignorance become a badge of honor?

    I have read so many posts by those who condemn any and all 'modern versions' for ommissions, additions, and alterations. These indiviuals want to rant and rave that the 'modern versions' are not true to the original manuscripts (ie, they do not use the Received Text only), but use 'perverted' and 'corrupted' texts (the other several thousand manuscripts, dating back to the fourth century). These same people claim that the 'modern versions' dilute and weaken key doctrines, such as the diety of Christ.

    But, the problem I have is this: these people (the vast majority thereof) have never bothered to open a 'modern version'. They have never bothered to look up the history of our English bible. They will not attempt to listen to any evidence that the majority of the 'modern versions' out today are accurate and reliable.

    Instead, they continue to throw out the 'tried and true' loaded arguements of the KJVO, attempting to force everyone to accept the King James as the measure of biblical perfection.

    They continue to ignore entire posts, and reply to a single line (ripped bleeding out of context) in an effort to shift the focus from the hollowness of the KJVO position.

    They insist that any variation from the 'established' measurement of the KJV is ommission and addition, totally ignoring the fact that the KJV does not distinguish between textual notes and biblical text (and, in fact, incorporates both as a whole).

    They refuse to examine the evidence of the earlier manuscripts that do not have the scribal additions, but instead wail indignantly that every other manuscript and translation has deleted 'time-honored' words from the only perfect word of God.

    Since when did willful ignorance become a badge of honor?

    In Christ,
    Trotter
     
  2. tinytim

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    What can you do to help someone that is so rebelious as to not learn the truth?

    I'm beginning to wonder that if people want to be left in darkness (ignorance) maybe we should just warn them and then move on.

    Jesus warned about people that will not listen to truth.
     
  3. Scott J

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    Some are willfully ignorant but others are willfully self-deceived. They insulate themselves with sophisticated null statements. One of our esteemed members writes lengthy, winding posts that in the end prove absolutely nothing because they are founded on nothing more than logical fallacies, false premises, and presumptions.
     
  4. sharpSword

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    Trotter "Since when did willful ignorance become a badge of honor?"

    Scott "Some are willfully ignorant but others are willfully self-deceived. They insulate themselves with sophisticated null statements."

    Just out of curiosity, do these questions and thoughts/statements apply to all aspects of life and activities, or just the Version issue?
     
  5. Watchman

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    Good question, and I would have to say, yes.
    But of particular concern is the ignorance of sound biblical doctrine.
    "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge."
    Hosea 4:6a
     
  6. GrannyGumbo

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    Till a year ago, I'd never so much as heard of a KJVo or Ruckmanism, or Gail, or Greek/Hebrew, etc, etc, etc...all I EVER had on hand(or cared to, for there was no reason to have anything else), was my Bible...not called the KING JAMES, just HOLY BIBLE. I've never met so many arrogant(& sometimes mean-spirited) folks in all my life as I've seen since coming on Board here.

    Now if I'm willfully ignorant and/or willfully self-deceived, what does that make y'all-the ones who have a problemo with folks like me, & my fellow comrades, who ARE more learned. I don't have a problem with you...maybe I feel bad for you, I don't know, but hey, it's your life.

    You DARE call my people, who were kind, hard-working pilgrims "ignorant", because they chose to believe BY FAITH that that blessed ol'Book they held in their hand, was truly the very pure & perfect words of God! They did NOT have the luxaries of a vast library or the use of a 'puter to study these things out that you talk of...I DO have access to all that, but I choose to believe(by FAITH) in only my ONE Bible & the wealth contained therein. It's NEVER failed me, just as Jesus NEVER fails.

    I doubt anyone will care or even read this post, as most think I'm stuck in a time-warp anyhow; I was "kjO" before "kjO" was even cool. He that knows nothing doubts nothing, or to simplify it, the most ignorant are the most sure.
     
  7. USN2Pulpit

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    GrannyG, I'm not sure you've strengthened your position with this comment, but I find myself in agreement with the majority of your post...spending time on this topic when people already have their minds made up is a terrific waste of time. If this forum (Bible Versions) was to disappear, it wouldn't hurt me at all. Nevertheless, since it is here, I scan through, and rarely, I make a comment.
     
  8. Ed Edwards

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    Thank you for verifying the arrogance of ignorance.

    Ephesians 4:17-19 (nKJV):

    This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should
    no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles walk,
    in the futility of their mind,
    18 having their understanding darkened,
    being alienated from the life of God,
    because of the ignorance that is in them,

    because of the blindness of their heart;
    19 who, being past feeling, have given themselves
    over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

    It does bother me that because i say "I'm a fundamentalist
    Christian" i am pegged with this arrogance of ignorance.
    This arrogance of ignorance is an impediment to the
    witness of 100s of millions of sincere witnessing Christians.
    No, I'm not talking about going around with obscene signs
    and making a nuisance of myself; i'm talking about the witness
    that leads to true conversion and the true change of one's life.
    And this witness is decimated by the arrogance of ignorance.

    What a vain and demonic philosoply:
    "Faith is ignorance."

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Scott J

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    Without any question... one of the redeeming things for some KJVO's is that get many other things right that others miss completely. Many KJVO's are fundamental in their beliefs other than Bible versions.

    Error begets error... which is why I oppose KJVOnlyism. People who are otherwise doctrinally sound have started down a slippery slope of accepting extra-biblical teaching as a dogma.
     
  10. Charles Meadows

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    Grannygumbo:

    "Till a year ago, I'd never so much as heard of a KJVo or Ruckmanism, or Gail, or Greek/Hebrew, etc, etc, etc...all I EVER had on hand(or cared to, for there was no reason to have anything else), was my Bible...not called the KING JAMES, just HOLY BIBLE."

    No one would fault you for that position. It's a fine stance, and an internally consistent one. But there are those (not me!) who have on hand the NIV, NASB, NKJV and have grown to love its verbage - the HOLY BIBLE. If you (which I'm not saying you have) choose to denigrate their bible then you're attacking them. Remember this is a debate forum! ;) If you state an opinion then you're likely to have to defend it. You don't have to make any excuses for what you believe (as you well know) but on this forum you know you're probably going to get asked to PROVE IT!
     
  11. Anti-Alexandrian

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    I could say that those who hold the "all bibles are the word of God" mentality are "willfully ignorant," but it goes a little further than that.

    The fear of man and refusal to admit fault on their part is more the norm I would say.


    No..
    They ARE true to their Alexandrian roots...Thusly,proving Matt 7:20 to be true!!


    And they do!

    You speak of willful ignorance and yet IGNORE the fact that God was ousted from 1st Tim 3:16...


    And for that statement YOU are willfully ignorant!!!

    I have(as well as many,many others)looked into the history of English(as well as other languages)Bible;not to mention,Church history as well...I would suggest the same for you..


    I think Scripture(KJB) says OMMISSION is a factor(Eve. Gen 3, Balaam.Numbers 22, and Satan in Luke 4).
     
  12. All about Grace

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    Willful ignorance is only a badge of honor among the ignorant. It is easier to remain ignorant on a subject matter than to face the accountability that comes with knowledge gained.

    Thank God someone took the time and had the patience to help awaken me from the willful ignorance that I wore for years as a badge of honor.

    I have also learned it is much easier to stand and "preach" ignorance among the ignorant. You do not have to use basic logic or even common sense. You can simply scream really loud "my Bible is better than your perversions" and the ignorant will respond with a hearty "amen." Wake up call: Loud does not equal RIGHT!!!

    I recently listened to a sermon from one of the leading proponents of the KJVO philosophy (I use the word philosophy broadly here). Here was his logic: "You can have your NAS, NIV, NKJV, Book of Mormon, Reader's Digest, Playboy, etc., I will take the Word of God (KJV only). It was amazing to me how foolish his logic was & how he, in good conscience, was able to lump all of these into one category and think he was actually proving KJVOism. And the sad reality is that his crowd was hooping and hollering. I listened with a grateful heart that God had set me free.

    Ignorance is no badge of honor. It is a disgrace to the work of God. And one day people will stand accountable for it. To the one who has been given much .... you know the rest of the story.

    Here's a similar thought: Why is it that those who claim to honor the Word of God the highest by embracing one human translation are also those who abuse the Word of God the most when preaching, teaching, or debating???

    Climbing off my soapbox now ...
     
  13. Lacy Evans

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    I was wondering if you guys keep the heads on your wall (as trophies) of all the straw men you kill.

    Lacy
     
  14. robycop3

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    What makes it look so ignorant is that KJVO has been PROVEN incorrect, without a shadow of doubt. It's man-made origins have been clearly documented on this board as well as many others. The history of the Bible in English shows us that no two versions are alike, and in the face of the fact that we KNOW God has preserved & provided His word, this shows He preserved it in verious versions as He chose. And the most TELLING fact is that KJVO has absolutely NO SCRIPTURAL SUPPORT, direct or implied. Therefore, it's as much a man-made false doctrine as is regenerational baptism, modalism, or a hundred other "isms" that some charlatans have tried to add to Christianity.
     
  15. Spirit and Truth

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    The truthful, speak from the heart Granny G said:

    Till a year ago, I'd never so much as heard of a KJVo or Ruckmanism, or Gail, or Greek/Hebrew, etc, etc, etc...all I EVER had on hand(or cared to, for there was no reason to have anything else), was my Bible...not called the KING JAMES, just HOLY BIBLE. I've never met so many arrogant(& sometimes mean-spirited) folks in all my life as I've seen since coming on Board here.

    Now if I'm willfully ignorant and/or willfully self-deceived, what does that make y'all-the ones who have a problemo with folks like me, & my fellow comrades, who ARE more learned. I don't have a problem with you...maybe I feel bad for you, I don't know, but hey, it's your life.

    You DARE call my people, who were kind, hard-working pilgrims "ignorant", because they chose to believe BY FAITH that that blessed ol'Book they held in their hand, was truly the very pure & perfect words of God! They did NOT have the luxaries of a vast library or the use of a 'puter to study these things out that you talk of...I DO have access to all that, but I choose to believe(by FAITH) in only my ONE Bible & the wealth contained therein. It's NEVER failed me, just as Jesus NEVER fails.

    I doubt anyone will care or even read this post, as most think I'm stuck in a time-warp anyhow; I was "kjO" before "kjO" was even cool. He that knows nothing doubts nothing, or to simplify it, the most ignorant are the most sure.

    S&T:

    You know Granny, I like your style. You have captured the essence that we should walk by faith, and not by sight. Sometimes mans wisdom gets in the way.
     
  16. All about Grace

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    Walking by faith does not equal walking with ignorance. I can "believe" with all my heart(faith) that John Grisham's novels are inerrant and inspired by God. That does not excuse such willful ignorance.

    In my personal experience within the world of willful ignorance, it is common for the herd to consider themselves "more spiritual" than those outside their camp b/c they cloak their ignorance in spiritual terminology such as "faith" -- once again abusing the text which they claim to hold so dear.
     
  17. GrannyGumbo

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    Thank you brother S&T. Tho' I am the most ignorant here, I also find that I'm the most sure of my stand. Maybe I'm too dumb to know I'm "wrong", but if I were to die right now, I'd die truly in innocence that I've served the Lord my Saviour all my life to the very best of my ability & while I've let Him down daily, He has never failed me...not once, nor has His word. I trust it, I believe it, I accept it, I follow it. This Bible is my standard & God set it.

    It has kept me away from firewater, from an immoral & illicit lifestyle, & from false doctrine. It has held together one man for 40yrs. & together we raised 6 children & also cared for my mama. It showed me how to be hospitable, happy, & hopeful. I've not had to run here or there, to check this one or that one, or read this or that language to understand what God would have me to. It's all in there. Confident & Complete. I do not have to defend my stand, the Lord has already done it for me.
     
  18. michelle

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    Peace and love to you all in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour!

    --------------------------------------------------
    Tinytim quoted:

    Jesus warned about people that will not listen to truth.
    --------------------------------------------------

    It is funny how many here like to claim those that stand for the strong testimony of Jesus Christ and the words he has preserved for them, who do not doubt it, but have FAITH in his promise and provision, are not obeying the Lord Jesus Christ.
    Jesus Christ also said that those who love him, keep his words. Jesus Christ also warned, those who would add to, or take away from his words, would be in danger of God's judgment. Yet we see God's words of truth being believed, taught, preached, lived, by believers for hundreds of years by the english speaking people, to only have in these modern and last days say that God never said those things, because the oldest manuscripts do not include them. This is believing man and man's wisdom, rather than having Faith in God's promises, and what God has provided, to the point of doubting it, and then accusing those who believe it, to not be standing for the Lord. I have the feeling many here, do not like the truth they are hearing, because it shows them in their heart that they have doubted God and his promises, and to the point of attacking what God has already given to us and to those who are claiming it and sharing it.

    Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  19. michelle

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    Peace and love to you all in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour!

    --------------------------------------------------
    ScottJ quoted:

    Some are willfully ignorant but others are willfully self-deceived. They insulate themselves with sophisticated null statements. One of our esteemed members writes lengthy, winding posts that in the end prove absolutely nothing because they are founded on nothing more than logical fallacies, false premises, and presumptions.
    --------------------------------------------------

    Scott,

    You couldn't have made a more accurate statement about those who cling to and stand for the modern versions which have altered God's pure and perfectly preserved words for the english speaking people.

    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  20. michelle

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    Peace and love to you all in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour!

    --------------------------------------------------
    grannygumbo quoted:

    I doubt anyone will care or even read this post, as most think I'm stuck in a time-warp anyhow; I was "kjO" before "kjO" was even cool. He that knows nothing doubts nothing, or to simplify it, the most ignorant are the most sure.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Sister grannygumbo,

    To this, and to all of your post I say Amen! and glory be to the Lord Jesus Christ. He is faithful and true. Praise our precious Lord and Saviour for what he has given us! Himself and his word of truth!

    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     

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