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Wise and Foolish Virgins

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by J. Jump, Jul 9, 2006.

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  1. J. Jump

    J. Jump New Member

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    And again you can not interpret Scripture on opinion.

    No because you contradict this very passage we are speaking about with your view. Not to mention other Scripture.

    It doesn't say it directly, because you are supposed to realize that both sets of virigins are saved. And in understanding that you see that Jesus does in fact say this to a Christian.
     
    #21 J. Jump, Jul 9, 2006
  2. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    I have to agree with Marcia. If God never knew you it was in pardon and remission of sins. He does know those that are saved and believe me God's children does not let the oil run out. The oil ran out in the foolish when they come to know to do good and did it not.
     
    #22 Brother Bob, Jul 9, 2006
  3. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    oops again!!!
     
    #23 Brother Bob, Jul 9, 2006
  4. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    and again!!!!
     
    #24 Brother Bob, Jul 9, 2006
  5. J. Jump

    J. Jump New Member

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    That's not even the context of this passage. The context of the passage is readiness in view of our living for the coming of Christ. The only people that even have the ability to make themselves ready for His coming is saved individuals.

    No offense Brother Bob, but I would rather believe the inerrant Word of the Almighty God. It carrys a lot more weight than Brother Bob said...

    That's exactly right and it puts works into view and eternal salvation and works are not in the same context, because we are saved apart from works of our own.
     
    #25 J. Jump, Jul 9, 2006
  6. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    Oh, but the wise were ready!! It does talk about the saved and the foolish (the unsaved).
     
    #26 Brother Bob, Jul 9, 2006
  7. J. Jump

    J. Jump New Member

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    They were ready, becuase they were living rightly just as you say before. And right living has nothing to do with eternal salvation, because if it is then salvation is by works and not of grace, and we know that can not be.
     
    #27 J. Jump, Jul 9, 2006
  8. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    well, its not the works of the Law, like circumcism for sure.
     
    #28 Brother Bob, Jul 9, 2006
  9. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Faith:
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    Exactly:thumbs:

    peace to you:praise:
     
    #29 canadyjd, Jul 9, 2006
  10. LeBuick

    LeBuick New Member

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    Let's look at this a different way, isn't the holy spirit the oil (some say Jesus)? How can one be saved and not have the spirit?
     
    #30 LeBuick, Jul 9, 2006
  11. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist New Member

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    I am not reading into the scriptures. The Bible says that the foolish virgins took no oil.

    I can say you are reading into the scriptures by saying the wise virgins took extra oil. The Bible says they took oil in their vessels with their lamps. It does not say they had oil in the lamps at the time, only in the vessels.

    God does not give portions of the Holy Ghost, He gives the Holy Ghost. One person does not have any more of the Holy Ghost than another.

    The virgins had no oil. They were not saved. Christ, as pointed out, did not know them.
     
    #31 standingfirminChrist, Jul 9, 2006
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2006
  12. J. Jump

    J. Jump New Member

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    LeBuick yes the oil is representative of the Holy Spirit. But where does it say that any of these are without the Spirit?

    Again the only road you could travel down in the way in which I think you are headed is that they started out with the Spirit and then lost the Spirit so they were saved, and then lost their salvation.

    That would be one way to interpret the Scripture and some have interpreted it that way, but we know when comparing Scripture with Scripture that eternal salvation is secure.

    Again eternal salvation is not even the context of this passage. It can not be. Because right living is the context and our living right or wrong does not have anything to do with eternal salvation or it would be by our works and not the works of Jesus. Therefore it would be wages not grace.
     
    #32 J. Jump, Jul 9, 2006
  13. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    SFIC;
    I think it says they let their oil run out. I believe its when they come to know to do good and did it not and became dead in sin. At least that is my take on it.

    You are right SFIC; they didn't take any oil with them. Seems they had it at one time but let it run out.

    "8": And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
     
    #33 Brother Bob, Jul 9, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 9, 2006
  14. J. Jump

    J. Jump New Member

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    Once again let's beat this dead horse. They took no oil in comparison to the wise that took oil in their flasks. No one goes off without even taking any oil in their lamp.

    Again a lamp with no oil can not be going out or gone out. They didn't lie about it, because no where in the story are they rebuked for lying.

    You are plainly ignoring Scripture that teaches against your man-made tradition so that you can hold on to your sacred cow.

    You are absolutely right. But when it comes to living (and that's the context of this passage) we can quench and hinder the Spirit. If we are living for self the Spirit will not be active in our lives.

    They were not ready for the return of the bridegroom because their lives were not in order. The context is right living not eternal salvation.
     
    #34 J. Jump, Jul 9, 2006
  15. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    "8": And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out
     
    #35 Brother Bob, Jul 9, 2006
  16. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist New Member

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    Brother Bob,
    verse 3 says the foolish took no oil. I submit to you the foolish were lying to the wise when they said 'our lamps are gone out'. I believe the lamps were never lit to begin with.

    Since oil represents the Holy Spirit and we know the Holy Spirit will never leave us, how can their oil have run out. Truth is, just like verse 3 says, they took no oil with them.
     
    #36 standingfirminChrist, Jul 9, 2006
  17. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist New Member

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    JJump,

    Before I lost my sight, I was caught in the dark many times with no matches to light a lantern. I have been guilty of carrying a flashlight with no batteries to the shed before, only to have to return to the house to get fresh batteries.

    Even a mechanic will tell you he does not have every tool at his reach all the time even though he is doing a certain job.

    Face it, the foolish virgins had no oil.
     
    #37 standingfirminChrist, Jul 9, 2006
  18. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    It is just that I believe a child is not lost until they know to do good and do it not. I think they have to come to a age of accountibility of when the Law enters and as Paul they die. I think the foolish virgins did the same thing but they never did receive forgiveness after they had sinned and the wise did. I just don't assume they lied.
     
    #38 Brother Bob, Jul 9, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 9, 2006
  19. StraightAndNarrow

    StraightAndNarrow Active Member

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    The unfaithful "in the church" will indeed be at the Judgement but they will be on Christ's left side. There's no such thing as a faithful and an unfaithful Christian. There are Christians (eternally saved) and the unsaved (eternally damned).
     
    #39 StraightAndNarrow, Jul 9, 2006
  20. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist New Member

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    JJump, If Christ told someone that was indwelt, regenerated, and sealed by the Holy Spirit; purchased by His blood, and loved by God that He never knew them, then Christ would be a liar.

    Christ is not a liar. You sir, need to rethink your position in this matter. Nowhere in scripture does Christ say to one saved that He never knew them, nor does He tell the saved, 'I know you not.'
     
    #40 standingfirminChrist, Jul 9, 2006
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2006
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