With thanks to SavedByMercy for defending Calvinsm

Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by BobRyan, Jan 18, 2015.

  1. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    I am one of those Arminians on this board that has responded to SavedByMercy with many many Bible texts to oppose her views about how the Gospel works.

    As a result it might seem that I and other Arminians are not fully appreciative of her efforts. This thread is to affirm and applaud the fact that she is standing up for Calvinism - not hedging, not playing a shell game with it. But boldly admitting to its principles.


    For example --




    Often we get into an odd "game" with Calvinists when contrasting Calvinism to the Bible where they try and slip this way and that claiming nobody can really know what Calvinism teaches except a Calvinist etc.

    SavedByMercy does not offer any of that nonsense. She is very consistent and up front with the teaching of Calvinism and not at all afraid to let us contrast what she admits about it with Bible texts where it does not seem to fair so well.

    Few Calvinists are willing to state the case and then "let the chips fall where they may" but that cannot be said of SavedByMercy.

    I for one am deeply grateful. I have seldom found such openness among Calvinists.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  2. steaver

    steaver
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    To a point she is, but often she ignores a few of the very pointed tough questions as seen in my "Preparing a truthful Calvinist sermon" thread where I ask her twice now if one can believe on Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour yet reject TULIP and still be saved. No response......
     
  3. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    By the way, I am a man, and a man of God !
     
  4. BobRyan

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    Sorry about that - I don't know how I got the impression you were a woman. I will ask the moderator to edit my post.

    Bob
     
  5. BobRyan

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    Still I think you will agree that he (SBM) has admitted to a great many views held by Calvinists - and logical conclusions for Calvinism - that many other Calvinists tend to hedge about as if the position they are taking is not as clearly stated and transparent for all to see, as in fact - it really is.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  6. convicted1

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    Ummmmm, it's against BB rules to have a username in a thread title...
     
  7. steaver

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    My apologies. For quite awhile now posters have been referring to you as "she" and you never corrected them so I assumed you were. He or she has nothing to do with debate, so I hope they were not trying to demean you in any way.
     
  8. BobRyan

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    They can edit it if they like - I am affirming SBM.
     
  9. steaver

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    Yes, but as I said not completely, and for good reason. You see, Calvinism, when it is thought through thoroughly with investigative questioning, has no choice but to conclude the extremes to which it wants to deny.

    SBM admits that if one embraces TULIP then one must conclude TULIP to be the very Gospel which saves. But this causes another conclusion, which even SBM does not want to admit publically, which is those who do not embrace TULIP cannot be considered saved.

    Calvinism, when honestly and objectively worked out to it's inevitable conclusions, self implodes upon itself. It gets cornered when it claims TULIP to be the very Gospel. But it has no other choice but to declare it the Gospel, for if it is not, then what is it? And if it is the Gospel, what of those who reject it? Quite the conundrum for the Calvinist.
     
  10. steaver

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    Since this post from me, SBM has publically declared that those who do not believe TULIP is The Gospel indeed cannot be considered saved. But he is not alone. Two others on here have posted as much, without rebuke from any other Calvinist...ArchAngel did disagree with Icon but then waffled...but no other Calvinist stepped up to give rebuke.

    First we have this exchange quote for quote...

    Answer....

    And then we have this exchange.....

    Answer...

    And then this....

    Answer...

     
  11. Revmitchell

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    There is nothing commendable about claiming only cals are saved. It is heresy, it is evil, and it should not be tolerated nor commended.
     
  12. steaver

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    Absolutely agree!! And that is why TULIP is so wrong, if a TULIP believer be absolutely honest, as SBM has been, the belief leads to this inevitable conclusion.

    This was the question in my thread "If not the Gospel, then what is it?". Which was closed for some reason.

    You will hear the same testimony from all Calvinist which is "God opened my eyes" to TULIP. Well, if it is not the Gospel, then what value added does it have to the Christian walk?

    If truth be known, I would wager 99% of Calvinist believe TULIP to be the Gospel in their hearts, they just don't want to publically say so. Even Spurgeon believed as much.
     
  13. convicted1

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    I did not EVER state you or any non-cal were unbelievers, so don't put words in my mouth Steaver....
     
  14. steaver

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    Care to explain your answer in this exchange....

     
  15. BobRyan

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    I would agree that TULIP does describe and define limits for a gospel - just not the Gospel that you find in the Bible.

    It describes how it is that someone gets saved and explains why some are saved and some are lost and it tells you how evangelism works at all.

    I agree to this extent - if one assumes that the gospel in Calvinism is correct - then the gospel in the Bible and thus in the Arminian model is false. It is "another gospel".


     
  16. convicted1

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    Jesus said His sheep will hear His voice. They will follow it, too. They know His voice and wherever He goes, they go. Not He goes and they can choose to go or stay. You quoted those verses and I :thumbsup: it.


    I believe the DoG is a deeper theological system that explains God in fuller detail of how He deals with His chosen. But I would never call non-cals unbelievers. I was one the first 6+ years of my walk with God.
     
  17. steaver

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    No Willis. A debate board does not work that way. You cannot slice and dice out of context and then say you answered the quote.

    The full quote is given, the issue is why doesn't all Christians embrace TULIP, the answer given was because they all are not Jesus' sheep. At which you gave a :thumbsup:

    Now either you can humble yourself and say you were wrong and the sheep answer to the question is wrong, or you can double down and keep on trying to slice and dice. What will you do?

    ps. I know Icon is your hero and you know it was him who gave the answer of them not being sheep to the question as to why they all do not embrace TULIP. This places Icon in agreement with SBM. Do you want to stick with them, or do you want to take a stand and rebuke them?
     
  18. convicted1

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    Okay Steaver, I will go over your sermon once more....

    No one would ever state this. However, those who are saved are not saved by chance. In other words, God works out the time, place, and gospel message to bring salvation to fruition. So, in reality, if they're saved then, they were not there by chance, but devine decree.


    True statement.

    Calvinism or TULIP is a system that best displays how God deals with all creation in regards to His sovereignity, imo.

    Thanks! I agree with this. It sounds familiar.

    This is a stoopid statement. The gospel is God's power in saving sinners.


    Again, TULIP or Calvinism best explains how God works, imo...


    I don't disagree with this in the least.


    I don't congratulate people, I praise God for saving them. If they refuse to believe, they deserve hell. God hates, but if we hate, we're considered a murderer. God's a jealous God, but if we're jealous, it's as cruel as the grave. God revenges, but if we do, we sin. God's righteous in all His ways, we're not...
     
  19. BobRyan

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    then you may find this to reflect the spirit of Calvinism - never preached.

    ================================================== ==================

    Originally Posted by BobRyan
    Nothing I say and nothing you choose this evening will make any difference at all in the outcome,

    You cannot obtain salvation by choosing something today nor can you affect your eternal doom if in fact you are forsaken of God.

    You and I have no control at all over that.

    Let's all just be seated for the rest of the meeting - and in silence watch to see what God is sovereignly going to do, perhaps He will cause someone to get saved as we watch.

    20 minute pause ...

    Dismissed.

    ================================================== =========

    CAlvinism that is monergistic - declares that man does nothing... nada...zilch
     
  20. OldRegular

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    I would not say he SBM is standing up for anything but his warped view of the Doctrines of Grace and the Salvation of those who disagree with him!
     

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