Without the Bible, Can We "prove" Jesus existed and did all that we claim?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by JesusFan, Dec 15, 2011.

  1. JesusFan

    JesusFan
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    As many time skeptics will fall back to the ole "thats in your Bible, not proof!"

    using JUST historical facts from the , could we build a good case jesus lived, did, died, resurrection, and have their criteria on non biblical sources used?
     
  2. mandym

    mandym
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    I don't want to do it without scripture.

    Heb 4:12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

    Rom_1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

    1Co_9:16 For if I preach the gospel, that gives me no ground for boasting. For necessity is laid upon me. Woe to me if I do not preach the gospel!
     
    #2 mandym, Dec 15, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2011
  3. JesusFan

    JesusFan
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    Understandyour point, but isn't the faith rooted firmly in historical facts/evidence that support what the Bible states?
     
  4. mandym

    mandym
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    And that history should be presented in conjunction with scripture not apart from it.
     
  5. milby

    milby
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    This looks like a good book about this, its called "The Historical Jesus" by Gary Habermas. I haven't read it yet but plan to.

    Here is the product description I copied and pasted.

    "Some critics of Christianity (such as the makers of the popular online movie Zeitgeist) suggest that Jesus never lived, that He was a myth. This is foolish. Beside the twenty seven New Testament documents that verify He lived, there are thirty nine sources outside of the Bible, written within 150 years of Jesus life that mention Him. These sources include the Jewish Talmud, the Roman historian Tacitus, the Didache, Flavius Josephus, Pliny the Younger, Suetonius, the Gnostic gospels (e.g., the gospel of Thomas), etc. These extrabiblical sources reveal to us more than 100 facts about His life, teaching, death and even resurrection.

    In The Historical Jesus, Gary Habermas does a masterful job compiling, examining and commenting on this wealth of extrabiblical evidence for the life of Christ. If you're interested in reading what Flavius Josephus, the Talmud, or the Roman historian Tacitus said about Jesus, with a scholar's analysis of the material, you'll find it in this book. The evidence is clear: the Jesus of the New Testament is the Jesus of history.

    College Press Publishing Company, paperback, 298 pages.
     
  6. JesusFan

    JesusFan
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    Thanks!
    Know My pastor speeaks highly of him, as he is one of his best friends!
     
  7. Amy.G

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    Interesting that I just watched THIS last night. I really like this guy. He hosts a show called I don't have enough faith to be an atheist.
    This clip is called New Testament is too embarrassing to be false. Well worth watching.


    There is also secular historical proof of Jesus.
     
  8. preachinjesus

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    One of my areas of speciality in my doctoral research considered external sources evidences for the historical Jesus (I don't mean the Jesus Seminar here, I'm talking about a field of study.) There are a number of good external sources contemporary to the first century which speak of Jesus.

    Of most figures in antiquity we have limited data. Heck, for Caesar we have very limited data but most still believe he existed. The truth is we have more external source data for Jesus having been a physical man in history than we do almost all His major contemporaries.

    Even Bart Ehrman says there is enough data to believe Jesus existed, and he doesn't know of a serious scholar who doesn't believe Jesus existed. Listen if Bart says that (I've got the YouTube link btw) we need to believe it.

    Two notes on resources:
    1. The Habermas book is good though I am partial to other works, here I'm thinking stuff by Craig Keener or James DG Dunn. NT Wright's work on the historical Jesus is outstanding too. If you're looking for a short and excellent primer check out his "Who Was Jesus?" It is excellent and thoroughly biblical.l

    2. One of the best recent treatments by a budding scholar is Mike Licona's The Resurrection which is a 500 (?) page redraft of his PhD dissertation. The current criticism from ridiculous Christian leaders notwithstanding, Mike's work is excellent and primarily focuses on what data/evidences we have for the reusrrection. His contention, which I support, is that we have more evidence for the Resurrection of Jesus than most people wish to admit.

    This is a good question.:thumbs:
     
  9. JesusFan

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    that is what Frank Morrison found out, as he sent out to intentional prove Gospel of Mark was faked, but due to the evidence of empty tomb/resurrection of jesus, forced to write "Who moved the Stone?"

    What is onteresting to me is that many times those like attorneys research this as skeptic, and end up by historical data itself forced to affirm that the bible account pretty much was true! Thos epeople used to having to be accurate in evaluating information...
     
  10. Jon-Marc

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    I usually don't know what's going on in the world, but I'm not aware of any non-Bible books or man-written material that tells about Jesus and what He did--especially about His death, burial, and resurrection for our sins. The Bible, while written by men, is the word of God given to man, while everything else is written by men alone without being God-breathed as the Bible is.

    Unfortunately, you can't use scripture to prove anything to someone who doesn't believe in God or doesn't believe the Bible is a special Book inspired by and given to us by God.

    Using the Bible to prove ANYTHING to unbelievers who have not been spoken to by the Holy Spirit would be like using a book about ghosts to prove to me that they exist. The only ghost that I believe is on this earth is the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit as I prefer to call Him.
     

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