Wives should submit to their husbands????

Let's not leave this out of context, as Bunyon point out, the Bible doesn't leave it there. The husband is supposed to RESPECT the wife, as Jesus does the church. There are two sides to this issue and one without the other sounds a bit, ahhh, how should I say it? ....Islamic?

 

I'm still looking for that Bible verse that says:
Men - Lord it over your woman!

I think it comes right after:

Early to bed and early to rise;
Makes a man healthy, wealthy, and wise.

 

If I submit a report, I offer it. When a person submits to their spouse, they offer themselves as a partner. This has nothing to do with who is the boss of anyone.

 

Ephesians 5:25,33 (KJV)

25: Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church , and gave himself for it;

33: Nevertheless let everyone of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

 

Ephesians chapter 5 is one place that has great instruction for spouses.

Also, it is so much easier for a wife to submit to her husband if he cherishes her. If a husband is treating his wife the way Eph.'s says to then she will do just about anything for him.


Eph 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

 

Simply put ...

A private submits to the authority of the leaders over him (her). The 'authority' is responsible to follow his (her) orders ...

When it is smoothly done, there is no hickup ...

... it is when we start trying to change the laws and make it about who wins instead of loving each other and submiting to the law of God that we start having troubles ...

 

Should wives should submit biblically to their husbands? Yes, absolutely. The key word here is biblically. That means:

A husband has no authority to command anything of his spouse.

A wife has an obligation to allow the husband to spiritually lead the family.

Also, the husband has the obligation to love his wife as Christ loved the church. Both the husband and wife have a responsibility to submit to each other as to the Lord, and to love each other as Christ loves them.

A common problem in marriage is that wives don't know how to scripturally submit, it's that husbands don't know how to scripturally lead. "Do what I tell you to" is not biblical headship.

 

The husband's scriptural authority is limited to spiritual authority. If a husband tells his wife she must jump around the house on one leg and sing yankee doodle, is she scripturally obligated to do so?

No, I meant "command", but "demand" fits as well.

MP said it best: When a person submits to their spouse, they offer themselves as a partner. This has nothing to do with who is the boss of anyone. As for me, my wife is my partner. We are one flesh. There is not above/below or "over/under" in a marital covenant. In fact, the scriptural model of marital authority is the following:

Christ
||
||
||
||
V
Husband <===== Wife

Note that the wife still has the obligation to obey Christ, but submits to her husband's leadership in spiritual matters. The husband does not stand between his wife and her Lord.

The following is NOT a biblical model:

Christ
||
||
||
||
V
Husband
||
||
||
||
V
Wife

Note here that the Husband stands in the way of Christ and the wife. By doing this, the husband puts himself in an unscriptural position, attempting to replace Christ with himself. This is what happens when scriptural authority is confused with a "command-and-obey" model.

[ October 21, 2005, 05:02 PM: Message edited by: Johnv ]

 

I'm not overreacting. It's not a part of scriptural headship.

Commandng is not part of a husband's spiritual headship, do there never a need for him to "command" his wife.

If my wife ever breaks into my house witha gang of thugs, you will have a point.

Spiritual authority does not imply commanding. It implies leading. Big difference. Huge difference. Gi-normous difference.

Here's the problem. The scriptural call to women is to submit. There is no scriptural call to men on what to do with that submission. None. The typical problem in a marriage is not that women aren't submitting, but that men are "expecting" something from their wives' submission (you're supposed to submit, therefore you must do...). Husbands are not ever given authority to expect sumbission. It's an instruction to the women and women only. The men need to stop trying to give instruction in the matter, and need to start being obedient to their own scriptural call.

The context of the verse in the whole of the chater is that of a spiritual nature.

 

Yes I have, as demonstrated by the fact that I can spell "laissez faire" But I don't base spiritual roles on modern definitions.

Not sure what you're saying here. Chapter? Verse? I can find nothing in the OT that counters what I've posted here.

Bottom line: The call to submit is directed to the wife only, and no authority is given to the husband to enforce it. Yet it is most often men who believe that this call gives them some kind of dominance over their wives, as though scripture instructs husbands to enforce this calling upon women. It does not.

A husband should be true to his calling, and not be preoccupied with his wife's calling.

 

The husband is called to be the spiritual head. Spiritual headship involves leading by example. No where in scripture can I find any instructions given to husbands demand obedience as part of this spiritual headship. Your dissertation on varying methods of leadership is immaterial. Leadership is not the issue here. Spiritual headship is.

If the husband commands, and the wife is not obliged to comply, then if she does not comply, is she in violation of her call to submit? Many will say "yes", thus disproving your point. Sorry, but "command" implies requiring someone to follow your orders. I fail to see how you can excuse this as appropriate husbandly behavior.

That is directed towards the wife alone, and it's a statement of result. It is not a call or directive for wives to be under their husbands' rule. More importantly, since it's directed towards wives, it is not a call upon men to rule their wives. Implying otherwise is nothign short of a perverting and twisting scripture.

No where does the NT direct husbands to rule. It only instructs wives to submit, and there they are only to submit as to the Lord. This instruction is to wives only. There is no instruction in the NT for husbands to require submit to them.

I was making a lighthearted comment. I did not mean to impune your ability to spell. Sorry if it came out wrong.