Woman at Home/Titus 2:3-5

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Q. Marlow, Jul 16, 2001.

  1. Q. Marlow

    Q. Marlow
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    I am not sure where to post this and so will do that here.

    Joy2 wrote this...

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> For the sake of argument, please go back and actually read Titus 2:3-5, which commands us to be in our homes. A career ouside of the home is in violation of God's plan for a married woman with children.

    Since that is not what this thread was originally started for, any other conversation on the matter can be taken up on another thread. It does relate, but let's not steer it off course any further.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    As a guy I do not have to worry to much about this. But I still am going to give my one cents worth here. First of all I will refer to Titus...Titus says Keepers at home. I looked up the word keeper in the Strongs concordance, and found that the word keeper can mean a stayer at home. But it can also mean a guard. What do I mean by that...If you look at Prov. 31, you will see the woman protecting her household. So from my viewpoint Titus does not state that all women must stay at home, but that they must guard, or keep, there household. Going back to Prov. 31, I sure don't see it saying she stays at home, it looks more like she out in the world... Just a couple thoughts. I am not saying it is wrong for woman to stay at home or that it is wrong for them to work. In fact I believe the woman when fulfilling her first God made command (to be a help meet for her husband), would do better at home. But I am not saying that a woman cannot work.
    My $0.01 worth
     
  2. Bob Landis

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    It is Gods command that a parent is needed at home to nurture the children. God believes that women are better at nurturing then men. There are a lot of women out there that think for some reason that this is an insult to their self worth. Bringing up your children in the word of God and to live Godly lives is an extremely important ministry, but some see it as a third rate job. Granted, the pay is low and sometimes it seems that there is no appreciation but there is. Sometimes jerk husbands forget to show it. God appreciates and blesses it. As for the pay, you are storing your treasure up in heaven, along with the salvation of your children. [​IMG]
     
  3. Kathy

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    Thanks Bob! My husband and I went so far as to move from where we lived (Miami, Florida - one of the sin capitals of the world LoL, to Peebles, Ohio, which is a small rural farming community), left ALL of our family and friends, to afford my staying home to raise our two daughters. When I did work, we were ALWAYS broke and miserable. Since I have quit working and we moved, I truly believe that God has blessed us because even tho my husband makes less than $20,000 a year (we used to make $40,000+ combined), we are better off financially now than we ever have been during our 7 year marriage! THANK YOU FATHER!

    Kathy [​IMG]
    &lt;&gt;&lt;
     
  4. KeeperOfMyHome

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    Actually Q.Marlow, if you understand the meaning of the word at, then you would better understand that women are to be in their homes, and not out in the world working at a career.

    From Webster's online dictionary, I give you the following:

    1 -- used as a function word to indicate presence or occurrence in, on, or near &lt;staying at a hotel&gt; &lt;at a party&gt; &lt;sick at heart&gt;

    3 -- used as a function word to indicate that with which one is occupied or employed &lt;at work&gt; &lt;at the controls&gt; &lt;good at chess&gt;

    I think this wraps up any doubt one may have as to God's role for the woman in this world. [​IMG]
     
  5. Joy

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    A woman can not do the job God intended her to do if she has a career full-time outside of her home. God gave the main job of provision to men, and nurture to women. Homes work best when it is followed this way.

    Full time careers outside of the home are products of modern feminism, and it has been allowed to invade our churches.
     
  6. ChozGod

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    Let me start off saying; I have been home for 12 years and now my youngest is 3, and I have homeschooled and believe it is the role of the mother and not a baby sitter to raise your children. But ( I know never start a sentance with a "but") the Proverbs 31 woman did work outside her home, though I am sure her young children were with her. I also agree that a woman is her husbands helper and sometimes that can be by "working in the church" Or other career. Case in point...I will be working for the church school this Fall, but my children will be in my classroom ( one room schoolroom to start) I do not feel this is going against the call of God on a womans life because I will still be teaching my children and with them daily.
    Paula
     
  7. SaggyWoman

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    I need a man. I need a man. :D
     
  8. KeeperOfMyHome

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    Saggy, if you're serious (and I'm sure you are), I'm really gonna earnestly pray for the Lord to send you a man. [​IMG] Do you have any preferences? I want to make sure I'm very specific. LOL :D
     
  9. SaggyWoman

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    I like big and hairy. :eek: :mad: :D
     
  10. Karen

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joy2:
    A woman can not do the job God intended her to do if she has a career full-time outside of her home. God gave the main job of provision to men, and nurture to women. Homes work best when it is followed this way.

    Full time careers outside of the home are products of modern feminism, and it has been allowed to invade our churches.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    In practicality, my family has followed this.
    I have been married for a long time and have children I "nurture".

    However, speaking generally, a problem with your view is that your specific application, which you have amplified in a number of other posts, is very specific to modern American culture. No other time or place, including most places in the world now, has the ability to have a suburban American application of these passages.

    The real change in this last 150 years is not
    the exodus of women from the home. Poor women have always worked,from daylight to dark. In my family, on the farm, my grandparents plowed while older kids did chores, too, and took care of younger kids.
    I was raised on the farm in a slightly more
    "nurturing" way in a modern sense.

    The main change has been the exodus of men
    from the home, due to the Industrial Revolution and the decline in farming.
    Most people in this country lived on farms in 1900. Most people in this country did not live on farms in 2000.
    Most people lived near family in 1900.
    A staggering percentage of families now live nowhere near extended families. Grandparents have become once a year present dispensers by mail.
    One of the joys of my life has been raising my children to really know and spend time often with extended family.

    As Christians, we have accepted staggering changes, especially with men leaving the home, but THE one we have the most trouble with is the idea that a married Christian woman can have an enjoyable job.
    I submit that it is quite POSSIBLE for a woman to have an outside job and have more overall energy for her children than if she was hitched to the plow all day.

    Many Baptists hope so, anyway. A lot of Baptist preacher boy seminary students think they would have to drop out, and a lot of
    bivocational pastors quit if not for their wives' working.

    Karen

    [ July 18, 2001: Message edited by: Karen ]
     
  11. ChozGod

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    Karen&gt;&gt;The main change has been the exodus of men from the home, due to the Industrial Revolution and the decline in farming.
    Most people in this country lived on farms in 1900. Most people in this country did not live on farms in 2000.
    Most people lived near family in 1900.
    You made some very interesting points in your post. Interesting and true.
    Paula
     
  12. Briguy

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    originally posted by ChozGod:

    -But ( I know never start a sentance with a "but") the Proverbs 31 woman did work outside her home, though I am sure her young children were with her.-

    The woman of virtue verses in Proverbs 31 are seperated into 3 sections. A young wife, middle age wife and an old wife. The things that chpt. 31 describes are what a women should strive to do over a lifetime and not at once. While kids are young a women rises while its dark, etc... She does more of the away things as she ages. Neat stuff when you look at it from this perspective.
     
  13. hollyberry710

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    I am a degreed, career woman who is also a Christian. I have never felt any pressure whatsoever from any preacher or fellow Southern Baptist to stay at home. I have one daughter who is 11. She is an honor-roll student, is born-again, and is active in church, school, and community. She is not afraid to share her Christian beliefs with others.

    My salary is very good, and while we don't need the money, we tithe and give extra to our favorite charities. We have given money to friends in need. We are able to contribute to political candidates.

    At every company I have worked for, I have been able to witness to others. This is done gradually, leading by example and behavior, and then when asked I witness. The company I work for now is rather un-Christian so this gives me a good opportunity to spread the word.

    I want my daughter to be prepared to support herself. Not everyone marries, and not everyone marries well. We want her to be well-educated and use her education for the glory of God. She will make a much better 'help-meet' if she is able to contribute financially to her household.

    We no longer live in a society where farming, housework, and cooking takes up most of the day. Modern conveniences make this easy.

    I love my work and it makes me a more interesting wife and mother. I do hold pretty regular hours and don't work weekends or holidays. My husband and I rotate 'sick kid' days. This has worked out very well for us.

    God gave me many gifts and I hope to use them well. Sometimes I am not sure of the path, but I am sure, through prayer, of His will.
     
  14. Baptist Mom

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    Hi to all,

    I agree with Joy in the previous reply that Karen wrote she highlighted Joy's quote.

    But I do have to say there was a time where I did work and not because I wanted to but because I had to. I think it is wrong to work outside the home because you want to. Since I have been home I have never been happier. I also want you to know I had a really good job. But as women it our responsiblity in doing the raising of the children. It is the husband's responsibility to be the bread winner. But when the husband is home he is to be the head of the home.

    I have found real problems with women who work. They get to the place where they are being very successful at work and have the opportunity to be over others and when they come home they bring that home with them. Instead of being the submissive wife that they should be they are telling everyone including their mates what to do in essence they are treating him like a child.

    It is our responsibility as women to take care of the children when they are well and when they are sick and our family must come before a job. Our responsibility should be to stay home and take care of the home and the children.

    Now there are some who just can not afford to stay home or opt to send their children to a Christian school. Well in this day and age I can understand that. But if you are working to put your children through school I would encourage you to see if there is any way you can find a job at the school.

    Just my two cents.

    God bless you all,
    Cyndi
     
  15. KeeperOfMyHome

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    Hollyberry ~ You seem to miss the whole point of the role given to us by God! It's not a choice of 'should I stay home, or should I go out into the world, make lots of money to give to charity and be a good witness for Christ'.

    And let me say that it is a slap in the face to women who are keepers at home to say that working makes one a more interesting wife and mother.

    Also, as far as a woman being a better help meet by bringing home $$, a woman can better serve her husband if she creates a quiet, peaceable home for him to come home to every day. And if it is necessary for the woman to help make ends meet, there are plenty of ways to do that from home.

    I know I may sound a bit frustrated here . . . but let's just face facts. You can give excuse after excuse for a woman working outside the home, but you either believe what God says or you don't. Period. And God did tell women that He wants them to be keepers and guides of the home.

    Julia

    [ July 20, 2001: Message edited by: KeeperOfMyHome ]
     
  16. Kathy

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    I'd like to interject a footnote here. I had a GREAT JOB! I worked for the State and had GREAT benefits, my bosses loved me and I had great co-workers (how many people can say that?) Anyway, my hubby and I always believed that I HAD to work to help support the family, but for about 2 years, I felt guilty about leaving my daughter for someone else to raise (7:00 am to 6:00 pm) but I couldn't shake the fear that I COULD NOT quit my job cuz we would suffer financially. I got pregnant with my 2nd child and my hubby and I decided to try my working part-time, which left him to care for the kids during the morning. When I got home, he would head off for work. We never saw each other and this only lasted for 5 months. We finally took that leap of faith and I just quit my GREAT job (it was not easy). Let me just tell you, God has blessed us tremendously! I'm not saying that I drive a new car, or I have nice clothes or anything like that, but God has provided for us in the sense that our bills are paid every month and we have food on the table. That is what I feel is a tremendous blessing because we were afraid of affording the basics...we not only afford the basics, but God has additionally provided for us to send our daughter to a Christian school this year (she's starting Kindergarten).
    Whats my point? My husband and I can make it financially (btw, it doesn't work out mathematically on paper) thru faith in God! My only regret is that I didn't step forward in faith sooner...

    Kathy [​IMG]
    &lt;&gt;&lt;
     
  17. hollyberry710

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    This is an old, old discussion that I'm afraid will never be resolved. My experience is that women cannot even agree to disagree about this issue.

    I am the keeper and guide of my home. The fact that I have a career does not diminish this. I have a 'quiet and peaceable' home. I would never treat my husband 'like a child' and am not inclined to do so even though I supervise others and actually expect others to follow instructions and hold themselves to the standards that I ask of them!

    Nor would my husband imagine treating me like a child. We discuss many issues in our home involving parenting, money management, community involvement, etc. On occasion we disagree, and I always follow his lead, as the Bible says to do. He is the spiritual head of the house.

    Reality may be a slap in the face, but the truth is, people who persue many interests are, in fact, more interesting.

    Being a mother is the greatest joy and the greatest responsibility I will ever have. I always recommend that women adjust their personal goals to meet the needs of young children. In todays world, many employers are very supportive and offer generous leaves-of-absence, part-time work, work-at-home, consulting and flex-time opportunities.

    I think it is very unfair to expect any husband to shoulder all of the financial responsibility. This is a huge burden to bear. Further, why bother to educate your daughters past literacy if they are never going to have to hold down a job? A few years of following mom around the house learning about child care, housework and cooking is all she will ever need to know.

    If you hold the opinion that women who work outside the home are in violation of God's law, then I assume that you don't allow your family to be infulenced by women teachers, doctors, nurses, accountants, lawyers, police, judges, scientists, etc.

    The Parable of the Talents in Matthew 25:14-29 illustrates what God expects from us.
     
  18. KeeperOfMyHome

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  19. Kathy

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hollyberry710:
    Further, why bother to educate your daughters past literacy if they are never going to have to hold down a job? A few years of following mom around the house learning about child care, housework and cooking is all she will ever need to know.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I'm sorry, but I take offense to this statement. You imply that to teach my daughter to be a Godly woman, all I have to do is show her how to cook and clean and take care of kids. I totally disagree! I have 2 daughters and I hope that they will go to college. I want my children to have a well rounded education and YES I will teach them what the Bible says on this issue.
    I had a GREAT JOB and a promising career as a Legal Secretary. I'm sure you are aware of what a Legal Secretary can make these days and I was at the executive level. I NEVER anticipated staying at home, however, I could not ignore my heart AFTER my salvation. I worked hard at my job to attain that status and I do not regret one moment! I feel I am a better wife, mother and woman for the experience I had. However, I KNOW that my responsibility lies with my family. I feel that if I cannot make a commitment to my children, then I never should have had them to begin with. That is the standard I place on MYSELF, I do not impose that standard on others. I do take offense to what you said about how to educate my children. Although you did not directly mention me, it is offensive to those of us who stay at home with our children.

    Kathy
    &lt;&gt;&lt;
     
  20. KeeperOfMyHome

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    I agree with what you said Kathy. This was offensive to me as well.

    I am the mother of three daughters, and while I do wish for them to be obedient to God's will, I do not think going to college to be against God's will or a waste of time. In fact, I would like for my daughters to go to college and learn something that will be useful in areas other than a career. For example, a degree in education so that they may teach their own children at home, or for use on the mission field to teach missionary children so that the parents would not to send their children boarding school while they are on the mission field.

    My daughters could also obain a nursing degree which could easily be used on the mission field.

    Though these are only a few examples, there are many areas a woman could further her education in to assist her in life.

    There are many things that a woman can do with an expanded education even if she is a keeper at home. Education is seldom wasted . . . even if you don't pursue a career with it!
     

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