Women "Filling In" in our Churches

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Dr. Bob, Dec 28, 2004.

  1. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    Debby mentioned that in her church "we actually allow women deacons, although we women deacons only serve communion when there are positively no men around - has happened once or twice when it snowed or there was much sickness".

    Wonder what everyone thinks of chuches with very few men (perhaps new works or small words) having women "fill in". Where would the "limit" be in your opinion?

    Female preaching (NOT pastor)
    Female deacon
    Female song leader
    Female choir director
    Female ushers
    Female teachers
    Female officers (clerk, financial secretary)
    Female board
    Female pulpit committee

    You get the pix. And thanks to Debby for piqueing my mind on the subject. Our church followed the same route as yours - was American (Northern) Baptist, then Conservative Baptist, then totally independent.
     
  2. Johnv

    Johnv
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0

    Sure, especially if under the authority of the pastor (whom I would presume is male)

    sure

    absolutely. Sum o'dome men can't hold a note to save a life.

    Most definitely.

    why not?

    If you're talking "adult mixed gender sunday school", if under the authority of a male, sure. If you're talking teachers in general, I have no problem whatsoever.

    sure

    sure

    sure
     
  3. SaggyWoman

    SaggyWoman
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2000
    Messages:
    17,933
    Likes Received:
    8
    Why is it a bad thing for women to serve communion? Do they have to be called deacons to serve communion?

    Why is it a bad thing for women to lead songs? If it is done to glorify God, where is it a bad thing?

    Why is it a bad thing for women to usher?

    Why is it a bad thing for women to teach?

    Why is it a bad thing for women to use their gifts?

    Why is it made out to be a bad thing for women to do anything in the church--whether or not a man is present?
     
  4. SaggyWoman

    SaggyWoman
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2000
    Messages:
    17,933
    Likes Received:
    8
    In a way, for a woman to do a job in a church "because there is no man to do it"--that is goofy religion.
     
  5. Amity

    Amity
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    My opinion. well, as I see the scriptures anyway. No women are to be preaching or can be a deacon. They are not to have teaching authority over men. but we all are servants and each have equally important roles as such. Quite frankly, I'm glad that for whatever reason, God gave the burden of leading a congregation to the man. Us women take things too personally and get all emotional. God knows what he's doing. ;)

    As far as song leader, choir director i see no issue with this....this person is not teaching doctrine, but rather leading praise and worship to our Saviour. We can all do that. Amen?

    there are many things that women assist with in the church. anything that does not place them in authority over men i would not have a problem with. for example...our financial secretary is a female. quite frankly....women just seem to be better at keeping the books straight. ;)

    But anyway, that's my 2 cents....for what it's worth.
     
  6. gb93433

    gb93433
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    15,496
    Likes Received:
    6
    Until recently the SBC sent out women missionaries to other nations except the US and a few other English speaking nations to do evangelism and start new churches. A good example is Lottie Moon.
     
  7. Amity

    Amity
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    cause the Word of God says so.

    1 Timothy 2: 11-13 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
     
  8. SaggyWoman

    SaggyWoman
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2000
    Messages:
    17,933
    Likes Received:
    8
    cause the Word of God says so.

    1 Timothy 2: 11-13 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
    </font>[/QUOTE]But the same Bible teaches that older women are to teach younger women.

    It also teaches that we are responsible for teaching our children.
     
  9. Johnv

    Johnv
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0

    Scripture doesn't say that.

    Scripture doesn't say that either, unless one takes scripture out of context.

    The only thing that scripture refers to as far as gender is the "husband of one wife" verse. Even there, it can be implied that the context is about polyamory, and not genderism.
     
  10. Johnv

    Johnv
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    To understand this verse in the context it was written, we must look at the Greek. Gunh and Anhr are the words in koine Greek for "wife" and "husband" respectively (not "man" and "woman" in general), and being guided in this verse by the passage which is its wider context, we can see that this context is referring to a home-marriage-family situation, not a church context. Paul is saying that he does not allow a wife to exercise authenteo over a husband in the marriage relationship (authenteo = control in a domineering manner).

    This verse has to do with the marital relationship. It was not intended to refer to all men and women in a church setting.
     
  11. Amity

    Amity
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    cause the Word of God says so.

    1 Timothy 2: 11-13 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
    </font>[/QUOTE]But the same Bible teaches that older women are to teach younger women.

    It also teaches that we are responsible for teaching our children.
    </font>[/QUOTE]absolutely. my apologies for not being clearer in my posting. we are not to "teach and have authority over men".....
     
  12. Amity

    Amity
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    all due respect, Paul is giving Timothy instruction on church structure.


    God is not the author of confusion. I'll take my Bible for what it says. If others want to disagree or make excuses for women and how they want their feminist equal rights these days, that is their free will.


    Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever.


    In Christian love.
     
  13. Amity

    Amity
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    and don't get me wrong. I am talking church structure here. women have a lot to offer in service to our Lord. i mean, think about the samaritan woman at the well, running off to tell the men about Jesus! we have an evangelist there! [​IMG]
     
  14. Johnv

    Johnv
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0

    The church's instructions to Godly husbands and wives is part of that.

    It is not confusing in the Greek. It is only confusing when one gives a translation more authority than the source text. That's the price we must pay for relying on a translation rather than studying koine Greek and relying on the source texts.

    OTOH, if one disregards the source texts in favor of a translation, then one becomes guilty of revisionist theoogy, and one ends up adding to scripture. I'm sure none of us here wants to do that. A person should not be accused of some "feminist equal rights" agenda just because there is a desire to understand the Word in its Greek written form and context. Sure, we can disagree about what that is, but let's avoid the mudslinging, shall we.
     
  15. USN2Pulpit

    USN2Pulpit
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2003
    Messages:
    1,641
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'd have to say regardless of the route we take on the "women" thing, most of our churches would be in sad shape indeed had it not been for the monumental efforts of faithful women.
     
  16. Amity

    Amity
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    amen we all have responsibilities as servants to our Lord and Saviour, and that includes us women.
     
  17. williemakeit

    williemakeit
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2004
    Messages:
    393
    Likes Received:
    0
    Strictly from personal observations, the prevailing attitudes toward women's roles in church governance within a certain church is in direct correlation to what the arrangement is in the home. This can also be extended to include the occupations of the women. If the women are in professional careers, there is a tendacy to push for, and pursue more visible roles, namely those of leadership and authority, within the church. I attended one Baptist Church (SBC) where there was push to establish the office for women deacons (the term deaconess was never used). The measure was narrowly defeated, but the heated debate caused a major rift between both sides, ultimately leading to a number of members leaving. In my neck of the woods, there are many churches, offering a wide array of beliefs and practices. My church does not have women preachers, women deacons, women music directors, women teaching men, or women ushers. There are plenty of churches in the area that offer these for those that are seeking such. My wife and I both enjoy the church. We have been there for 3 1/2 years, and it seems that we will probably be there for quite a few years more, if the Lord is willing.
     
  18. Debby in Philly

    Debby in Philly
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Messages:
    2,537
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dr. Bob, you're welcome. I like to "stir the pot" now and then....

    Our church has had women deacons ever since I can remember. Of course, way back then, they were "deaconesses," a term that has since fallen out of use. Our by-laws specify the numbers of male and female members that should serve on the deacon and trustee boards. In practice, all have equal vote on board matters, male deacons serve communion and take offering, female deacons prepare communion. As noted, exceptions have been made when necessary on given days, but they are rare.
    While there is no by-law prohibition, in practice, the only women who speak from the pulpit are missionaries reporting on their work, although they all seem to get in a little "message" along with the report.

    All other offices/functions listed at the beginning of this thread may be filled by women, including teaching in Sunday School where men may be present. We have only one adult class, and the current regular teacher is a man.

    When we were still in the ABC, I helped serve communion at a women's retreat. I can't tell you how much that meant to me, not just because of the act itself, but because it was something I couldn't do at home. I shared this with the officiating minister, and she (yes, she) took my hand and told me to be patient, that things might change.

    We're a part of the Conservative Baptists now, so I don't suppose I'll have that chance again anytime soon. Unless, of course, it snows a lot, and the women walk to church on communion Sunday.
     
  19. Gina B

    Gina B
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2000
    Messages:
    16,944
    Likes Received:
    1
    Sic 'er Webmaster! [​IMG]
     
  20. Soulman

    Soulman
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2004
    Messages:
    1,088
    Likes Received:
    0
    Unfortunately in some churches it is the women who are put into a position of leadership because the men will not step up and fill the roll. Still this is a test of faith.

    Female song leader
    Female choir director
    Female ushers
    Female teachers (if teaching women or children)
    Female officers (clerk, financial secretary)
    Female board
    Female pulpit committee
    No problem with any of these. But when it comes to pastoring or deacons you need to pray and wait on God for those positions to be filled.

    God bless you women for stepping up when the need arises. Just be careful not to jeapordise the blessing by being unbiblical. God will send Godly men if your work is a valid one and you trust Him.
     

Share This Page

Loading...