Women leading mixed Precept study??

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Jacob, Apr 1, 2006.

  1. Jacob

    Jacob
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    I need some opinions. I hold to male headship in the family and the church but don't know where to try the line. An issue at hand right now is that we've been invited to a Precept study during the Sunday school time at church. It is "facilitated" by 2 different women. Both men and women attend. At least one of the women's husband is a deacon and he attends the classes.

    I feel kinda strange about going (because of the women leading thing) but would like be part of the group with my wife.

    What do you think???
     
  2. PamelaK

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    I personally don't think a woman should be leading a mixed group at church.
    I think if you don't feel right about it you should not attend, and I would take it one step further if I were you. I would have your wife attend a different class with you, or an all ladies class.
     
  3. Calvibaptist

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    Jacob, you ask a question that is going on in the church that started our church. I am very good friends with the woman who is leading a precept study in that church. Men began attending about two years ago. I asked her about it and she said she really didn't like it at first. She initially went to her husband when a man expressed interest. The two of them went to the pastor. He decided that as long as it was under the authority of the church (with men leading the church) then it was ok.

    I respectfully disagree with her. And it is not a matter of my feelings. I feel that she is a very humble person. I feel that she is very submissive to her husband and her pastor. I fell that she is very gifted and qualified to teach. BUT, Paul is very clear.

    1 Timothy 2:11-12 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. 12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.

    Now, many people say that this was just cultural. The problem with that is that Paul uses the creation account as the support for his point. It goes all the way back to God's plan for roles for man and woman. It is not just cultural.

    Woman are to be heavily involved in teaching other women and children. The men are to be the spiritual authorities and exercise headship.
     
  4. bapmom

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    What do you all mean by "precept studies"?
     
  5. Calvibaptist

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    They are specific studies (usually with a video) written by Kay Arthur. She's a very thorough teacher who is very accurate in what she teaches. I would recommend them to every woman around because they are very in-depth.

    In a very basic sense, there is nothing new under the sun. The structure of her studies is "observation, interpretation, application" which every good Bible teacher does. To her credit, she is very gifted.
     
  6. rjprince

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    Calvbapt,

    ditto...

    [​IMG]
     
  7. rjprince

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    sorry, doubled...
     
  8. whatever

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    If you shouldn't be in a study led by a lady, what about attending a study led by a man but using materials written by a lady? Is that wrong?
     
  9. Frenchy

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    We use Kay Arthur in our church but only as a womans bible study. Looks like your church is headed down a slippery sloop.
     
  10. rbell

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    "Slippery sloop"--is that a boat covered in Crisco? :D
     
  11. Deacon

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    Bite the sloopy bullet ;) and try to learn something from a woman of wisdom.

    ...then later (after the seminar is over) quitely talk with the pastor.

    Rob
     
  12. insuranceman

    insuranceman
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    In light of this discussion, I have some questions.
    1. Is it unscriptural for me to read a book written by Elizabeth Elliot? Is she teaching me ,a man,by her writings?
    2. Was I wrong in 1972 to go and hear the great missionary Bertha Smith speak. Was I in error to listen to her admonish me and teach me and every other man (as well as women) to live a holy life? Was I in error when at the invitation I responded to the conviction of the Holy Spirit and went down front and then to the counseling room where I allowed her to pray for me(I even had her sign my Bible) and others who had fallen under the conviction of the Holy Spirit?
    3. Is it wrong for me to sing hymns by Fanny Crosby?
    She is through her poetry in music teaching and instructing me in the ways of the Lord. She teaches me that it is a blessed assurance that Jesus is mine and that it is a foretaste of glory divine.
     
  13. insuranceman

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    Sorry, I have one more question. Was I wrong when I drove Elizabeth Rice Hanford to the airport several years ago and let her teach me as we were driving down the road. I learned and was taught of her what what it meant to have a sweet and humble Christ-like spirit.
     
  14. Calvibaptist

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    Remember that the rule given in 1 Timothy 2 (and in 1 Corinthians 14) about the roles of women were in the context of the church. It has nothing to do with whether you read a book written by a woman, use study materials that a woman may have written, or even listen to your wife every once in a while. It is all about roles for the orderly running of the church.
     
  15. Calvibaptist

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    This is a very typical conversation, though. Why can't people just take what the Scripture says and obey it. Stop trying to come up with exception clauses and just do things the way God says.
     
  16. Karen

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    But, Calvibaptist,
    Part of the trouble in just taking what the Scripture says is that even you are not that consistent.
    It is a modern thing, in my opinion, to make this separation between church and out of church.
    In other words, a long time ago, a lot of Baptists would have told insuranceman that he WAS wrong to do all that, whether in church or not.
    (I don't think he was wrong. Sounds like he has been blessed.)

    Karen
     
  17. Plain Old Bill

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    Perhaps those precept studies would be better suited for home Bible study groups if we are going to have lady teachers.
     
  18. insuranceman

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    1Co 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
    Act 21:8 And the next day we that were of Paul's company departed, and came unto Caesarea: and we entered into the house of Philip the evangelist, which was one of the seven; and abode with him.
    Act 21:9 And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy.

    These Scriptures acknowledge the fact that women did preach to an assembly of believers.(Is not preaching a form of teaching?) The first passage is discussing head covering for women but shows that if a women is submissive to authority(her a hair is a covering and a sign of her submission)she can pray or prophesy(preach). The Acts verse tells us that Philip's daughters even preached in Paul's presence. Paul never rebuked them for doing this.
     
  19. Jimmy C

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    If you dont feel right going - dont go!

    IN the second instance - the woman was teaching the study and men decided they wanted to attend -their choice.

    I have been blessed by many women teachers over the years, and think that insuranceman is right on target with the verses from 1Cor and Acts - it seems that most on this forum are uncomfortable with the inspiration of these verses and chose to ignore them!

    BUT, if women teachers make you uncomfortable, there are many churches that do not allow them to teach - make sure you join one of them.
     
  20. Jimmy C

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    Even the great Mrs Criswell teaches (or taught - I dont know if she is still teaching) a mixed class at 1St Baptist Dallas
     

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