Women, pants, KJVO and conservatism

Dale,
I know you spoke of political conservatism, but I raised the issue of spiritual conservatism in opposition to a libertine attitude on holy living.

2nd
Be careful about your "plans", although yours may be correct. Remember the Lord only gave Adam and Eve one rule and they failed. It is not the number of rules or that they are necessarily forced (many rules of life are enforced on children, that doesn't make the rules wrong), because.........some children even with the best of circumstances still turn out as rebels to the Word of God (down deep in thier hearts) and thier parents never find out about it.

Lastly, I am glad that the total of your experience and mine also is not the only way "girls" turn out.

Thanks Bartimaeus/Ky/Look Away!

 

Here is your quote:
"that is not the role of the pastor to enforce."
Who are you to say what the preacher can or cannot preach in his own pulpit. You deny the basic principle of soul liberty and act as the pope of the Baptists in dictating what can and can not be preached in the pulpits of Baptist churches across America. It is the height of arrogancy.
The role of the pastor is to preach what he believes is right according to the Bible as the Holy Spirit has led him, whether or not it agrees with your hobby horse or not.

An assumption not proved by facts. This is strictly your opinion and you can't back it up.

This is where you go off the deep end and assume facts not in evidence. Who said anything about the use of "force." We are not Muslims forcing our women to wear "burkahs." For the most part churches that have dress standards, preach them from the pulpit. It is up to the people to be convicted in the heart and change on their own accord. No one forces them to do so. However in many churches (if not most) leaders must adhere to a certain dress standard. That usually means suits for men and dresses for women--whether you are the pastor, the song leader, or a soloist or piano player. There is a standard for the leaders of the church to take heed to.

You are stating your opinion again. And you have the right to it. There are many on this board that believe that a standard of modesty can adequately be defined by the Bible. If you haven't come that far in you spiritual life, than so be it.

There is soul liberty. You deny that there is. Your statement is that a pastor should not force things that are not in the Bible--referring to dress standards. That is a denial of soul liberty. I tell you what. You come to my church and ask to speak dressed in a bathing suit, and I will deny you the right. Am I right or wrong? As the pastor of the church I have every right to "to force things according to the Bible." And you believe that your opinion is that pasors are forcing your opinion. It is your opinion that cannot be backed up by the Bible. You are in error in this point.

With a statement like the one that I quoted of yours, you obviously are prejudiced, don't believe in soul liberty, and are not judging righteously. You are judging according to your bias and prejudices. It is a good thing that you didn't live in the Victorian Era, when even the "baring of the ankles" was a shame.

No man has the right to deny the soul liberty of another, just because he has a biased opinion that cannot be backed up in the Bible.

 

Dale, I don't understand what DHK's point is either. Is he trying to spur more debate?

 

If more preachers would preach the blood of Christ instead of pants, versions, and other things, the world would change.

But what happens? We get 25 ot 40 minutes to speak something worthwhile from the pulpit, only to waste that time condemning other Christians because they don't live the way we live...

Amazing....

 

But clothing standards and versions are important as well. If a lady in a bikini stood up and preached the blood of Christ out of the NWT, would people be won to the Lord?

The principle is the same, you just draw your line on clothing and versions at a different place than some do.

 

And THIS post seems to me to be the whole argument in this thread.
Some draw their line here________
Some draw their line there_________________________

The "shorties" call the "longies" legalists. But in fact the "shorties" do not even know what the term means. No one of the "longie" persuasion that I know of says you cannot be saved unless you have a long line.
THIS is legalism; it is ADDING to salvation the required works of the Mosaic law. Period. Mosaic law. Don't believe it? Then your Biblical knowledge is sadly lacking and you have succumbed to the pratting of this worldly churchianity society in which we find ourselves today.

What I suspect the "shorties" mean by calling others legalistic is in fact PHARISEEISM. Not Legalism. There is a difference, and many on this board need to learn the difference. Spouting off at the mouth that so-n-so is legalistic does nothing but incite dissension. You ought to know better.

OTOH; there are SOME "longies" who say you are not right with God if you have a short line. But the fact is that the "shorties" just MAY be right with God at that point in their life. God brings his dear children along.

Liberty. As long as it doesn't promote or encourage unholiness in your brother, should be the watch word here.

EVERY pastor has the God given directive to preach to his flock what God leads him to preach. And NOBODY has any right to say differently. It is to God and God alone that said pastor answers to.

Don't like it? Then find a different church. One which will be more to your liking. In the meantime, who are YOU to bring an accusation against God's man? To his OWN Master he stands or falls.


Disclaimer:
(This post was not directed to the man I quoted. I used his post as a spring board. I am directing comments to the general audience of this thread.)

 

Well I gotta ask? Will the Word of God come back void? You know I'm going to answer my own question.

Isa 55:9For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.Isa 55:10For as the rain cometh down and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, and giveth seed to the sower and bread to the eater;Isa 55:11so shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.


Php 1:15Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good willhp 1:16the one [do it] of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel;Php 1:17but the other proclaim Christ of faction, not sincerely, thinking to raise up affliction for me in my bonds.Php 1:18What then? only that in every way, whether in pretence or in truth, Christ is proclaimed; and therein I rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

Now if Paul said he could rejoice in someone preaching Christ with less than intolorable, who are you to complain about a woman in a bikini proclaiming the gospel? I admit it would be an odd sight but stranger things could happen.

 

I see what you are saying here.
But I would rather address these issues in Bible Study, where they can be hashed out.

I guess it is because, I see Sunday morning Worship, Sunday Evening Worship, and Wednesday evening Bible study as three different levels in church life...

Sunday morning there are a lot of visitors, I am speaking to a varied crowd from spiritual babes to spiritual giants, and I have to feed them all.

Sunday Evening, I go more into specific doctrine, because usually it is the truly faithful that show up...

Wednesday evening, is where we get into the real meat of the word.. Again it is the faithful that show up.

Sooooo.... That is where i am coming from...
I may address these issues on Wed, but probably not Sunday morning... I can think of more important practical basic lessons that need to be taught to the babes in Christ.

BTW, I am not against pants on women, and other versions.

 

hold your horses, ladies and gentlemen, before labelling those preachers and pastors after so many names... hehehe... just consider this matter.

I'm working here in middle east where women are mandated to where an 'Abaya' see picture...


women must wear this all the time outside.

At first, I said it is absurb even for non-muslim to wear it (for my wife). But I realized it is also for my wife's protection from lustful men or they call it here 'evil-eyes'.

So take consider about wearing modest dress, For me it is NOT good for women wearing shorts shirts, sleeveless and lowered-neck-line in public places or even pants... I believe what pastors and preachers hate about pants is that it shows the curve of the body, especially the buttocks and hips and front.

I heard the LUST for men is triggered by the eyes, and women by touch. Fashionable clothes are good but choose the right one for you.

 

av1611Jim,

you're right!

It gets very discouraging to come here and seemingly always be called legalistic just because I only wear dresses. It gets hard to take.......because the only people who have ever called me that have been other Christians.

tinytim, my preacher sees his services much the same way you do, I think. There are three quite distinct groups coming to those different services, and they all need to hear different things. You'll not hear much preaching against "what all those others out there do...." at our church, it's about what me and the rest of us are up to who are sitting there in the pews. Preaching against what some guy in Timbuctu is doing isnt helpful as he's in Timbuctu. I need to hear what IM doing.

but then, is the purpose of this whole thread just to try and make conservatives feel bad? That's all it did for me, though it isn't going to make me change my standards just because some of ya'all don't like them.

ps Merry CHristmas

 

If you feel you have a Biblical conviction you are upholding. Don't let what anyone else says bother you in the least!

 

thank you jne :wavey:


btw, I truly hope you all are having a marvelous Christmas day!

 

Thank you Dale,

I appreciate your candor.

I know I came to my standards through conviction and Bible study. In fact, they are not how I was raised, nor did they agree with the church I was attending at the time.

I definitely see your point, as I know some who fit what you are saying.