Women teaching women

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by qwerty, Nov 28, 2001.

  1. qwerty

    qwerty
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2001
    Messages:
    417
    Likes Received:
    0
    In your church, do you allow for this (women teaching women) as a formal process, or just assume that it happens as an informal process?

    Titus 2:3 Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good. [4] Then they can train the younger women to love their husbands and children, [5] to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God.

    Paul gives Titus some instruction about the older women in the church, and their position as teachers to the younger women. It seems that the results of the older women teaching the younger women would be very beneficial.

    Have you ever seen a church, Baptist or otherwise, that allowed for this to be done in a formal way?
     
  2. donnA

    donnA
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2000
    Messages:
    23,354
    Likes Received:
    0
    Not sure what formal way means, Sunday school and similar?
    We have women teachers, with only women in their class.In Sunday school they are all older women's classes. Most of the younger women( a few are in there slasses with the older women) are either teaching in some children's class, or are in a class with their huabands, lkie I am. We have a man teacher, one of the most knowledgable people I know.
    Is that what your asking?
     
  3. Danette

    Danette
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2001
    Messages:
    204
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes - and, personally, I believe churches should.

    -- Danette
     
  4. Chris Temple

    Chris Temple
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2000
    Messages:
    2,841
    Likes Received:
    0
    in our church women can only teach women (and children).
     
  5. livin'intheword

    livin'intheword
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2001
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    0
    in our church women can only teach women (and children).

    Aren't little boys, really little men in training? I don't think it's right for a woman to preach in church. But teaching is another thing all together.

    Paula
     
  6. Danette

    Danette
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2001
    Messages:
    204
    Likes Received:
    0
    The original post was specifically in reference to Titus 2 -- older women teaching younger women. The question of women teaching men was never raised. That's a whole different issue.

    -- Danette
     
  7. Brian Collins

    Brian Collins
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2001
    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    0
    Howdy Paula,

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by livin'intheword:
    in our church women can only teach women (and children).

    Aren't little boys, really little men in training? I don't think it's right for a woman to preach in church. But teaching is another thing all together.

    Paula
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    As Danette pointed out, this is another issue altogether. However, to answer your question (or what I perceive to be your question), yes, boys are just men in training, but they are still boys and not men.

    Teaching and preaching both come with some measure of authority, and women are not given authority over men in the scripture, generally speaking.

    As soon as I can, I'll get my recent tract "Can a woman be a man of God?" posted in html on my web site. I know you alredy believe a woman should not preach, but the tract makes some good points about why women are to have no authority over men, even in teaching.

    Also, in Isaiah 3, it was a curse for a man to be ruled by a child or by women.

    --Brian C.
     
  8. Brian Collins

    Brian Collins
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2001
    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    0
    Qwerty,

    I believe the context of the verses in Titus indicate that this teaching is in general, and should come as a natural part of fellowship. That's the impression I get. However, there is nothing disorderly about women teaching women in a formal setting either. It doesn't have to be impromptu all the time.

    --B C
     
  9. SaggyWoman

    SaggyWoman
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2000
    Messages:
    17,933
    Likes Received:
    8
    Women teaching men? Heck no. What information from the Bible could a woman possibly teach a man?
     
  10. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    We have the traditional ifb teaching times (Sunday School) but offer classes on Tuesday and Wednesday taught by older women of the church and designed to disciple and strengthen the hearts and homes of the younger women.

    Doing "Changed into His Image" right now - text, workbooks, sometimes we use videos. It fulfills the Bible commandment.

    We also have our college/institute classes (taught by myself, our pastor, and a couple other men with earned doctorates here in Casper) and find more women in these classes.

    But that is more a mixed group and not directly germain to this issue.
     
  11. Joy

    Joy
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2001
    Messages:
    2,637
    Likes Received:
    0
    We are still a fairly new church. Since I am responsible for the Ladies Ministries, when we have fellowships or meetings, I try to utilize the older ladies as much as possible. We have a number of dear elderly ladies who have much wisdom to impart to us younger gals. For that, I am grateful! ;)

    Someday, it is my hope that we will be able to have women's Sunday school classes as well.
     
  12. Rev. Joshua

    Rev. Joshua
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/cjv.jpg>

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2001
    Messages:
    2,859
    Likes Received:
    0
    We don't make any gender distinctions about our teachers or clergy. We have two large adult Sunday School classes that are offered on Sunday morning, and a Wednesday night Bible Study. Men and women have led all three.

    Joshua
     
  13. TurboMike

    TurboMike
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2001
    Messages:
    110
    Likes Received:
    0
    We have a Bible Study on Wednesday nights at my church. I had been saved about 6 months when my Pastor announced his wife would be teaching about the tabernacle for about 6 weeks. I thought, "cool. I'd like to learn about that.". I went for two weeks and felt so burdened I couldn't stand it. I sat down once night and started reading about this "Paul guy" and what he said to his friend timothy. I then discovered my discomfort. I was attending a teaching that was wrong.

    I never really confronted my pastor about this (i'm still sort of new and on the milk) but i know it's wrong. Recently during our class elections, one of the male teachers stepped down. My pastors wife took his spot. The class is mainly women, but there are some men in the class. Maybe 4. Most are elderly. One is not, so i talked to him about it. He feels no conviction, so i let it go. What do you guys think about it?
     
  14. wishtolearn

    wishtolearn
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2001
    Messages:
    256
    Likes Received:
    0
    . I went for two weeks and felt so burdened I couldn't stand it. I sat down once night and started reading about this "Paul guy" and what he said to his friend timothy. I then discovered my discomfort. I was attending a teaching that was wrong

    How did you feel "burdened". Can you explain that? Why was the teaching wrong? Because it was from a woman? Please explain.
     
  15. TurboMike

    TurboMike
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2001
    Messages:
    110
    Likes Received:
    0
    It's hard to explain. I just felt very uncomfortable...very odd (odd for me..hehe)Almost like a anxioty(sp)attack. Why was I burdened? In my opinion because I was sitting under a women teaching a class that was the majority of men.

    Like I said, I was new to Christianity...i'd never heard anything about women not permitted to teach and this woman was the pastors wife, so nothing was predetermined in my mindset. After a few weeks of classes, i sat down to study and discoverd Paul and his writtings and eventually his letters to Timothy. On wednesday nights instead of attending HER lessons, i studied on my own and then when the next teacher came up, i returned. It was my conviction, and i did what I felt God wanted me to do. Many time I fail, but i at least attempt not to compromise what i see as very simple, very plain, very direct.

    The teaching wasn't "wrong". Actually her facts were correct and presention good. It was the person of the teaching. The bible is clear that women are not suppose to teach over men. Women are not suppose to be authority in the church. that doesn't go well with today's society, but the fact remains. Teaching is being a authority over the people that are attending that lesson. In school, whether high school or elementary, the teacher was in charge of the class. Same in college.

    You know, there are many Godly women the feel they have been called to preach and many follow through with it. None can really give you a answer as to why they ignore the many scriptures that oppose what they are doing. All they can say is, "I feel... I think... I believe..." The truth is many of thier messages will be 100 percent correct and inline with the bible, many people will be saved through thier preaching, but THEY, the women pastors, are being disobediant and not following what the bible teaches.

    I think many times pride gets in the way. I know that when i stopped coming on wednesday nights i was bashful about telling why because many people would feel i was "anti-female" or "anti-feminist". We compromise and compromise the world of God for the sake of everyone feeling good. I think alot of women preach because they feel they need the title to work for God. Let me say that women are the backbone of the church and backbone of the family. If it were not for women, the churches would be shut down. the fact remains that they are not or never called to preach or teach over men.

    [ November 30, 2001: Message edited by: TurboMike ]
     
  16. wishtolearn

    wishtolearn
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2001
    Messages:
    256
    Likes Received:
    0
    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TurboMike:
    It's hard to explain. I just felt very uncomfortable...very odd (odd for me..hehe)Almost like a anxioty(sp)attack. Why was I burdened? In my opinion because I was sitting under a women teaching a class that was the majority of men.

    Like I said, I was new to Christianity...i'd never heard anything about women not permitted to teach and this woman was the pastors wife, so nothing was predetermined in my mindset. After a few weeks of classes, i sat down to study and discoverd Paul and his writtings and eventually his letters to Timothy. On wednesday nights instead of attending HER lessons, i studied on my own and then when the next teacher came up, i returned. It was my conviction, and i did what I felt God wanted me to do. Many time I fail, but i at least attempt not to compromise what i see as very simple, very plain, very direct.

    The teaching wasn't "wrong". Actually her facts were correct and presention good. It was the person of the teaching. The bible is clear that women are not suppose to teach over men. Women are not suppose to be authority in the church. that doesn't go well with today's society, but the fact remains. Teaching is being a authority over the people that are attending that lesson. In school, whether high school or elementary, the teacher was in charge of the class. Same in college.

    You know, there are many Godly women the feel they have been called to preach and many follow through with it. None can really give you a answer as to why they ignore the many scriptures that oppose what they are doing. All they can say is, "I feel... I think... I believe..." The truth is many of thier messages will be 100 percent correct and inline with the bible, many people will be saved through thier preaching, but THEY, the women pastors, are being disobediant and not following what the bible teaches.

    I think many times pride gets in the way. I know that when i stopped coming on wednesday nights i was bashful about telling why because many people would feel i was "anti-female" or "anti-feminist". We compromise and compromise the world of God for the sake of everyone feeling good. I think alot of women preach because they feel they need the title to work for God. Let me say that women are the backbone of the church and backbone of the family. If it were not for women, the churches would be shut down. the fact remains that they are not or never called to preach or teach over men.

    [ November 30, 2001: Message edited by:

    TurboMike ]
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    So when you were in middle school or High school and you probably had women teachers, how did you feel about that? How do you feel about their place in education now? Why do you think God said that?
     
  17. TurboMike

    TurboMike
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2001
    Messages:
    110
    Likes Received:
    0
    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by wishtolearn:

    So when you were in middle school or High school and you probably had women teachers, how did you feel about that? How do you feel about their place in education now? Why do you think God said that?
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I wasn't saved till i was 31 (three years ago)so I wasn't a Christian in school.

    I don't have a problem with women teaching secular education to children. matter of fact, i don't have a problem with women teaching Biblical education to children. Women are not to teach over men in the church.

    I believe that God is not the author of confusion. We have order in our family life, and order in our church as God has commanded in his word.

    (1Co 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.)

    In the home we understand that the husband is the head of the household. Not a dictator, but the leader of the home. A godly wife understands that and submits to that. This does not mean she is weak. I can tell you that my wife is very, very strong minded and a independent thinker, but she will agree that I, as her husband, am head of the home.

    Eph 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

    Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

    Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

    1Pe 3:1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;

    Tit 2:5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed

    Women have many roles within the church, and as I have stated earlier, they are the backbone of the church. Women are permitted to teach children. They are permitted to teach other women, but are not permitted to teach men.

    Tit 2:3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;

    Tit 2:4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,

    1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

    1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

    1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

    1Co 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

    1Co 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

    Am i speaking to simple?

    [ November 30, 2001: Message edited by: TurboMike ]
     
  18. Rev. Joshua

    Rev. Joshua
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/cjv.jpg>

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2001
    Messages:
    2,859
    Likes Received:
    0
    Mike, part of learning to move from the milk of the faith to the meat is learning how to place particular scriptures in context. (See for instance this thread where several BB regulars use other biblical passages to show how "all" in a passage in John doesn't mean "all."

    It is dangerous to say that the Bible is clear on the role of women. It is clear that Paul had some particualr rules for specific settings about the role of women; but these passages must be held in tension with the teachings of Jesus, Paul's own comments in Galatians, and the stories of various biblical figures including Deborah, Priscilla, and Phoebe.

    I would highly recommend doing some additional reading and research in this area. The New Has Come by Anne Thomas Neal and Virginia Nealy (published by what was then the Southern Baptist Alliance) is a good starting place.

    Joshua
     
  19. Brian Collins

    Brian Collins
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2001
    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    0
    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by wishtolearn:
    So when you were in middle school or High school and you probably had women teachers, how did you feel about that? How do you feel about their place in education now? Why do you think God said that?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    He was a child then, not a man. Big difference. We've covered this already.

    --B C
     
  20. TurboMike

    TurboMike
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2001
    Messages:
    110
    Likes Received:
    0
    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rev. Joshua Villines:
    It is dangerous to say that the Bible is clear on the role of women. It is clear that Paul had some particualr rules for specific settings about the role of women; but these passages must be held in tension with the teachings of Jesus, Paul's own comments in Galatians, and the stories of various biblical figures including Deborah, Priscilla, and Phoebe.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


    Josh, Do you say that "since Paul said it, it's not exactly scripture"???

    I believe the scripture to be clear on this subject. As far as Deborah, Priscilla and Phoebe, i wouldn't mind discusing each of those instances in which you probably refer to them as a "exception" and "example".
     

Share This Page

Loading...