Women's authority over men?

I agree, ajg. I do not believe the woman is to dominate over the man in Church, home, or wherever.

Husbands are to love their wives as Christ loved the Church. Wives to obey the husbands.

God did use women in the Word for specific purposes. Deborah was used because Barak would not step up to bat so to speak.


Are we to put women in office over an entire country? I don't believe that is God's will. But, as in the case of Deborah, God may allow it to happen if the right man is not willing to run.

Do I think McCain or Barak are the right man? My religious convictions would say no. My religious convictions and the fact that Bill brought shame on the Presidency when he was President would prevent me from voting for Hillary as well.

We are living in a time when men truly have taken liberal views as their position calling good evil and evil good.

Keep looking up, for your redemption draweth nigh.

 

Yet we find Huldah, the prophetess, appointed by God, giving the Word of the Lord to His people (2 King 22:14-20).

This seems to be going against the consensus on this thread.

 

How so? I've seen numerous people (myself included) that believe a woman can preach, just not pastor.

 

Webdog, I know you don't believe that. :thumbs:

I think you and I are in agreement with this.

 

Best answer yet...

 

But it seems like some are content in saying that giving a word is equal to having authority over.

 

readmore,

Regarding my post concerning women in ministry, you said...

Here are a couple of links that should help...

http://bible.com/bibleanswers_result.php?id=141

http://www.ag.org/top/Beliefs/position_papers/pp_4191_women_ministry.cfm

Mike

 

I believe you're right. Good observation!

 

Because the President doesn't equal the Pastor. We don't vote for the Pastor of the United States of America. We have, and need, a meaningful separation here, particularly that we can't force one view of women's roles into society where the Scriptures don't speak to that role.

Household doesn't have the same sphere as political leadership.

Yes...frankly they probably will do, and have done, a better job than their male counterparts.

Logical fallacy. You can't make this comparison it doesn't meet the same test as others.

Where there is no direct word careful prayer and contemplation take place and are at all point preceeded by exercising Christian liberty. The Scriptures are clear about one thing: we, followers of Christ, are to be mindful to pray for our leaders and not force our worldview upon them. We can't ask secular authorities to exercise ecclesial conduct.

lol...hahahaha...this is exactly what happens when some are losing ground, they resort to labels and libels. You should be ashamed of yourself.

It's also why Christianity, particularly evangelical Christianity, has lost so much ground and legitimacy with an unbelieving world.

I think you're being overly dramatic...

 

Hi again Ann,

You made many good points and IMO you would make a good teacher

Many have ignored the fact that both Deborah and Huldah were prophetesses of the Lord.

And in fact we know through the Scriptures that men in authority in Israel went to the prophets to get a Word from the Lord.

These went to Huldah to get the Word from the Lord.

Yes it was under the Law but even Paul said that the Law tells women to be silent.

Therefore there must be exceptions to God's rules when He Himself allows it.

Deborah and Huldah are just such cases IMO.

SFIC gave a reasonable answer. The male leadership in Israel at the time did not live up to their responsibility and went cowering to a woman for an answer and in fact God spoke to them through this woman and she was not a dumb creature such as Balaam's donkey. She had intelligence, emotions and a will, Balaam's donkey had none of these on the human level but was being used as a mindless instrument; like a telephone if you will.

Huldah upbraided and then encouraged the men who went to her in the name of the Lord.

Also, no where in the Scriptures do we find a commandment for donkeys to be silent.

What's my point?

There are exceptions. The norm is male leadership. But when the men refuse or neglect their responsibility, God makes the rules and He makes exceptions as well (at least in the OT).

There seems to be a NT exception as well IMO.

In a survey of the whole counsel of God Paul says in 1 Timothy:

1 Timothy 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.​

And this seems not to be specifically in a church context but a general rule of Christian behaviour.​

"nor" (oude in the original language) does not always or necessarily mean the same as our English word "nor" but could and probably does means "not".​

That means she can speak so long as by doing it she is not usurping the established male hiearchy of authority that exists in that specific local church. ​

We know this intuitivley because almost every church I have been a member of has allowed missionary wives to get up and speak and even teach about their mission field and we all enjoy hearing about the work from the woman's perspective.​

This is because there is an absolute understanding that she is not usurping the authority of either her husband or the pastor of the local church but is a submissive co-worker; and a helpmeet to her husband and in partnership with the supporting churches.​

Or often we allow women to give testimonies in a church meeting where a sermonette might be thrown in at no extra charge ​

In Asia Minor where Paul co-labored with the Spirit of Christ to establish local churches was the ever-present problem of pagan temple priestesses who, even after they were saved, probably had to be taught the normal and natural order of God's hierachy of authority and no doubt many wanted to keep their authority over males. ​

So, there is the norm as well as the exception in this case.​

Those are my thoughts.​

Thanks
HankD

 

I totally agree! I am a woman and I can do anything that I set my mind to. We are to as women and men go out into the world and preach the gospel it doesnt say just the men can do it. That so frustrates me when people tell me I shouldnt have a career and family I should be home with my kids. No way thats going to happen I am not cut out for it. As for Hilary if I was a democrat then yes I would probably vote for her but since I am not..its McClain all the way! But I give kudos to Hilary for running for president and staying with this primary race

 

Then how can a women by the husband of one wife? Like a pastor is supposed to be? Also, you quote Joyce Meyer?

 

Yes I quote Joyce Meyer because that quote has gotten me through some of the darkest days in my life. I have a husband and I run my office with 10 men its called balance. I balance my work life and my home life. Women are not weak, not by a longshot. I have a friend who is a seargant major in the army and yes she is a female and she runs her troops and then goes home and runs her family. Its all about balance. God gives me the strength to keep going, I admit there are days I come home from work exhausted and yep I wanna lay down but I have lives counting on me to make dinner and clean the house. There are days when since the cancer I am exhausted but God gives me the strength to keep going. I also have been visiting a church that is led by a female pastor (and yes its a baptist church) and it is one of the highest growing churches in Indiana. The days of the woman in the pearls slaving over a hot stove waiting for hubby to get home and give him his slippers are long gone. My husband knows when he gets home that maybe dinner will be ready and maybe it wont, but he does come into a failrly clean home.

 

Post reported.

Questioning the salvation of posters isn't allowed on the BB. Show some class.

 

Husband of one wife--literally one woman man--probably was referring to no polygamy. Churches that I have been part of that use that verse to keep women out of the pulpit DO ordain single men, men who have been widowed, and men who have been widowed and remarried. Seems to be a double standard here in interpretation. Those guys are NOT husbands of one wife.

I have a dear friend who is a pastor in the most "liberal" of anabaptist churches--like any of those are truly liberal.

He tells me in his opinion there are two ways to go with women in authority. The traditional view is that from Genesis on, man is given the rule and women are under that rule. Wives are under the rule of the husband.

His church takes a different view. First off, he suggest reading the traditional male headship verses from Genesis on through the NT in the Message to get a better idea of what it really says.

If you do so, you will male and female created equal before the fall. Eve was a companion, a partner, not a lesser servant. Come the fall and come the curse, man loses his partner and is burdened with the responsibility to provide. He will rule (want to dominate.) She will still desire him (think codependent stand by your man) or try to dominate (think man hating radical feminist.)

However, in Christ, (for the born again), the curse is lifted. Man once more can have a true helpmeet, a true companion, a true partner. Scripture teaches mutual submission, stressing a man's need for respect and a woman's need for love. The veil is rent, and women, slaves, and Gentiles are no longer kept separate and less than in worship.

The battle of the sexes (part of the curse) is ended. Paul stresses that just as woman came from man, man comes now from woman, and it is time to end the "who's first" game.

They don't believe Paul teaches that the one who deliberately sinned, rather than being deceived, is therefore the better leader.

His church teaches that the husband IS to lead the family. Leading means the man literally goes first--first to sacrifice, first to model godliness, first to pray, etc. In no way does that equal being the boss.......it means being an example.

Wives ARE to follow that kind of leading.....also modelling godliness to the world, making sacrifices, praying, etc.

His church believes that true authority and leadership are matters of orthopraxy, not office or position. The one who does what Christ commands and is obedient to the Lord IS leading.....whoever that may be.

Hmm...Jesus has a lot to say about the meek, about humbling ourselves, and about those that SERVE others being the pre-eminent, not those that exalt themselves.

So when you see a man getting loud about his right to lead, and women needing to follow, you are seeing a man still living under the curse.

When you see a woman who either is willing to be a doormat, or who wants to dominate men, you see a woman who is still living under the curse.

When you see men and women humbling themselves, living right, loving and serving others, and taking that "lower place" at the banquet, you see people who know the curse is lifted.

So while I prefer McCain (actually my candidate is already ruled out), and prefer Hillary over Obama, it has nothing to do with gender. It has to do with who I believe would govern best.

 

Women weren't in the military in Biblical times and they don't need to be there now.

Then you are attending a false church.

America has fallen away from the scriptures and the roles for men and women.

 

Scribe, those are really harsh words to a fellow poster. Please calm down.