Word made flesh

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by percho, Nov 17, 2010.

  1. percho

    percho
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    3,890
    Likes Received:
    37
    I asked this in a thread now closed. Thought I would throw it out there again.

    Does the word of God describe the Word made flesh Jesus the Christ as being born more than once?
     
  2. kyredneck

    kyredneck
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    10,559
    Likes Received:
    274
    Percho, this is a hard one for me to grasp. Are you asking if Christ had to be regenerated? Born from above?
     
  3. freeatlast

    freeatlast
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2004
    Messages:
    10,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    NO He had one birth and one death which He arose from.
     
  4. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    7,406
    Likes Received:
    99
    As an incarnated being Christ only has one birth. As a divine beig Christ is preexistent and thus has no origin.
     
  5. TCGreek

    TCGreek
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    7,373
    Likes Received:
    0
    Fair enough.
     
  6. kyredneck

    kyredneck
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    10,559
    Likes Received:
    274
    Well, I'll agree with that. But is that what he was askin?
     
  7. percho

    percho
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    3,890
    Likes Received:
    37
    I mean just what I asked.

    Matthew 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

    Is that verse describing a birth?

    Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, [who is] the faithful witness, [and] the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

    Is begotten a birth term. Some translations have born I believe.

    Does the word of God describe the Word made flesh Jesus the Christ as being born more than once?
     
  8. convicted1

    convicted1
    Expand Collapse
    Retired Staff

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2007
    Messages:
    9,011
    Likes Received:
    3

    Hmmmmm......very interesting question, very interesting, indeed. I do not believe that Jesus was "born" more than once. He was born once "naturally", but He has everly been with His Father, and this is something that blows my mind! Genesis chapter 1 states that Jesus was with the Father, and Jesus even asked God once to give Him the glory He once had before worlds was(I'm paraphrasing that). So I have to believe that Jesus was only "born" once.

    i am I am's!!

    Willis
     
  9. kyredneck

    kyredneck
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    10,559
    Likes Received:
    274
    But now hath Christ been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of them that are asleep. 1 Cor 15:20

    And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. Col 1:18

    and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loveth us, and loosed us from our sins by his blood; Rev 1:5
     
  10. freeatlast

    freeatlast
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2004
    Messages:
    10,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    Again the answer is no. The Greek word is (prĊtotokos).
    It is an adjective and it is describing His position in relation to the dead. The structure is not saying that He had multiple births.
    It is also used in Romans 8:29
    For3754 whom3739 he did foreknow4267 , he43090 also2532 did predestinate4309 [to be] conformed4832 to the image1504 of his846 Son5207, that1519 he846 might be1511 the firstborn4416 among1722 many4183 brethren80.
     
  11. Amy.G

    Amy.G
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    What an odd question.

    Jesus was born physically, died physically, but was never born again spiritually. One has to die spiritually in order to be born again.

    Jesus never sinned, never had an evil thought, never had sin in Him, kept the Law perfectly, and was always God. God does not need to be born again.
     
  12. percho

    percho
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    3,890
    Likes Received:
    37
    Romans 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
    Matthew 1:17,18 So all the generations from Abraham to David [are] fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon [are] fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ [are] fourteen generations.Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

    Romans 1:4 And declared [to be] the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
    Acts 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

    Does the word describe was my question.

    Barnes-In Romans 1:4, it is also said, that he was declared to be the Son of God by the resurrection from the dead. See Barnes "Romans 1:4". The resurrection from the dead is represented as in some sense the beginning of life, and it is with reference to this that the terms Son, and begotten from the dead, are used, as the birth of a child is the beginning of life. Thus Christ is said, Colossians 1:18, to be "the first, born from the dead" and thus in Revelation 1:5, he is called "the first-begotten of the dead," and with reference to this renewal or beginning of life he is called a Son.
     
  13. percho

    percho
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    3,890
    Likes Received:
    37
    Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, [who is] the faithful witness, [and] the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

    What does first begotten of the dead mean above?
    Also what does washed us from our sins in his own blood mean?
     
  14. freeatlast

    freeatlast
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2004
    Messages:
    10,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    If Barns actually wrote that in the context you are suggesting then Barns is all wet. Keep in mind that just because Barns says something does not mean it to be so. Jesus was born once, died once and was resurrected once. His birth was not His death, His His death was not His resurrection , and His resurrection was not a second birth.
     
  15. freeatlast

    freeatlast
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2004
    Messages:
    10,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    Go back and read post 10.
     
  16. percho

    percho
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    3,890
    Likes Received:
    37
    Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, [who is] the faithful witness, [and] the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

    What does first begotten of the dead mean above?
    Also what does washed us from our sins in his own blood mean?
     
  17. freeatlast

    freeatlast
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2004
    Messages:
    10,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    Go back and read post 10
     
  18. percho

    percho
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    3,890
    Likes Received:
    37
    I went back and read post 10 and I guess you are saying that he is/was the first and I assume only up to this time that has been resurrected from the dead as he was? And Romans 8:29 at his coming when we are changed to be like he is then he'll be the first of many brethren? That's at our resurrection I guess.

    What about the blood question from Rev.1:5?
     
  19. freeatlast

    freeatlast
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2004
    Messages:
    10,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    percho actually I am not saying anything and the scripture is not saying that He was the first as in numbers or order. There were those raised from the dead during the OT before the Lord was ever on earth as well as before He died while He was here on earth. Scripture is saying He is the first as in authority or preeminence.

    As to your question on the blood in Rev; 1:5 I am not totally clear as to what you are asking. However the passage is saying that because of the shed blood of Christ God has accepted His sacrifice for us who believe unto salvation. The shedding of blood was necessary for payment of sin and that payment was placed on us by washing our sin from our accounts.
     
    #19 freeatlast, Nov 18, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2010
  20. percho

    percho
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    3,890
    Likes Received:
    37
    Well I assume we have physical sins and spiritual sins and the wages for this is spiritual death and/or physical death and Jesus who knew no sin God made him sin for us, how was our spiritual death paid? By the way I don't think the term spiritual death is in the bible. Why was the Holy Spirit unable to come before the death and resurrection John 16:7 but he was able to send the Holy Spirit fifty days after the resurrection. Just what was this glory that Jesus wanted the Father to glorify him with. Do you think it had anything to do with the Holy Spirit? Jesus himself said that which is born of the flesh must be born again or from above. No mention of sin here. Yet he was made sin for us.
    Was the word made flesh born of Mary? What about the preeminence in all things?
     

Share This Page

Loading...