1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Word Study G2525 kathistemi

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Van, Aug 14, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Top Posters
Page 5 of 5
  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    26,992
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yet another full on falsification. I said meanings, thus referring to the fact one must choose from among the range of meanings based on context.

    Translating different Greek words using the same English word obliterates the difference in meaning intended by the Holy Spirit's choice of differing words. Translating the same Greek word meaning with more than one English word or phrase obscures the message.
     
    #81 Van, Sep 25, 2014
  2. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    19,715
    Likes Received:
    585
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The falsehoods you tell are being remembered by the Lord.
    You make some grandiose claims and some juvenile denunciations. If anyone is obliterating and obscuring words --you are the master of the art.
     
    #82 Rippon, Sep 25, 2014
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    26,992
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Rippon seems to think full on fabrications such as the above are proper conduct. Yet he cites the command not to bear false witness.

    Returning to topic, the Greek compound word ( G2525 kathistemi) literally means to set someone or something down over something else. Frequently it is translated as to “put in charge.” The word appears 22 times in scripture.
     
    #83 Van, Sep 25, 2014
  4. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    19,715
    Likes Received:
    585
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Van's lexicon-driven approach is at odds with a contexually concordant method.

    As Andrew Rozalowsky has said :"Consistency in translating words may aid an English only reader in concordance type searches, but it doesn't necessarily aid in the interpretation of meaning in passages, the more important issue. If I had to choose one, I would go for meaning in context rather tha consistency in wording."
     
    #84 Rippon, Sep 30, 2014
  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    26,992
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The Greek compound word ( G2525 kathistemi) literally means to set someone or something down over something else. Frequently it is translated as to “put in charge.” The word appears 22 times in scripture. Lets look at some of those cases where it is not translated “put in charge.”

    In six of these alternate translation choices, our word is translated as “appointed” and thus could also be translated as “put in charge.” Therefore, in 14 verses, the idea is clearly someone or some group puts someone in charge of something. I see no need to pull off the most frequent and literal translation choice.

    However, lets look at the eight remaining cases, where our word is translated as “made” or “set” or “render” or “escorted.”

    In three of the verses where our word is translated “made” the idea again is being “put in charge.” (Acts 7:10, 7:27 and 7:35). So now we have 17 out of 22 usages where put in charge clearly conveys the intended message.
     
    #85 Van, Sep 30, 2014
  6. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    19,715
    Likes Received:
    585
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The trouble is appointed doesn't = put in charge.
    The word "therefore" is completely misplaced. You haven't establised anything for you to use the word. You're pulling the number "14" out of the air. You have not itemized 14 verses in order for you to make any kind of declaration.
    You have used this strange sentence over and over again. It makes no sense. One can pull of a mask. One can pull off a heist. But pulling off a translation choice is a mystifying phrase.

    The word is not merely translated as 'made.' It is translated as made ruler. Rendering it as "put in charge" is cumbersome.
    Acts 7:10 : made him ruler
    Acts 7:27 : made you ruler
    Acts 7:35 : made you ruler

    Your computational skills are greatly lacking Van. You have only submitted nine places of the 22 where you think "put in charge" should be used --not 17.
     
    #86 Rippon, Sep 30, 2014
  7. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    26,992
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The trouble is "appointing" is not correspondant, nor transparent to the original.

    Next we get absurd and false charges, i.e. pulling 14 out of the air and using therefore inappropriately. Note this attacks me, thus a violation.

    The English idiom, to pull off a target, escapes some, but others have actually pulled of a target. Here the goals of fidelity and transparency to the original are the targets, and there is no need to deviate.
     
    #87 Van, Oct 1, 2014
  8. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    19,715
    Likes Received:
    585
    Faith:
    Baptist
    LOL! And 'put in charge' is?! Come on Van.
    It is absurd that you would vainly repeat your hollow claim of "Therefore, in 14 verses..." You have not itemized them. You merely repeat your assertion as if we are to fall in step with absurdity. Since you have not produced your 14 mystery verses then you have indeed pulled them out of the air. Put some substance behind your claims.
    Yes, you have indeed used the word 'therefore' inappropriately. What's the 'therefore' there for? It is meaningless because you haven't established anything. You have tried to build something in midair --quite meaningless.
    For me to say that you are making stuff up and using 'therefore' evacuated of meaning is not an attack.

    But the following would be examples of attacks you have made:

    "Slop is the result of sloppy translation where close adherence to the accepted rules of translation is absent." (12/1/11)

    "So we are dealing with sloppy work, due to a lack of sound translation rules, or so it appears to me." (8/19/11) Just before this sentence of yours you claim that various versions 'butcher' John 21.

    You see your position as absolutely flawless. Anyone who counters your claims is certainly wrong and must be attacking the very citadel of truth. Though you know nothing about translating you demean translators with insulting language. Something is rotten in Denmark Van.
    Huh? Who talks like that? Who says :"I have pulled off a target." Google your unique phrase. It won't be found.

    You don't know the source language or the 'target' language of English very well.
     
    #88 Rippon, Oct 1, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 1, 2014
  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    26,992
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Translating different Greek words using the same English word obliterates the difference in meaning intended by the Holy Spirit's choice of differing words. Translating the same Greek word meaning with more than one English word or phrase obscures the message.
     
    #89 Van, Oct 2, 2014
  10. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    19,715
    Likes Received:
    585
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I quoted D.A Carson on another thread. He was saying that some would argue that a "word in the receptor language must have exactly the same semantic range as the word in the source language" but "this is rarely the case. That is why all translations use a variety of words to render one source word, or one word in the receptor language to render several words in the source language." (p.74 in The Challenge Of bible Translation)
     
    #90 Rippon, Oct 2, 2014
  11. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    26,992
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Translating different Greek words using the same English word obliterates the difference in meaning intended by the Holy Spirit's choice of differing words. Translating the same Greek word meaning with more than one English word or phrase obscures the message.

    Pay no attention to the repeat of the bogus strawman statement, no one is saying one word in English covers the whole range of source language word meanings. LOL
     
    #91 Van, Oct 2, 2014
  12. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    19,715
    Likes Received:
    585
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Do you agree, or disagree with the above?
     
    #92 Rippon, Oct 6, 2014
Page 5 of 5
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...