Word Study G4400, Procheirzo

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by Van, Aug 12, 2014.

  1. Van

    Van
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    9,516
    Likes Received:
    49
    This compound word presents the idea of the hand of God influencing or choosing someone beforehand for His purpose. So “grasping beforehand” or already chosen or choose someone beforehand seems to be the literal meaning.

    Lets look at the usage of this word in scripture:

    Acts 3:20, and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you,

    Here, the predetermined nature of the selection is hidden, but a literal translation, “the Christ chosen beforehand for you presents the full message of God.

    Acts 22:14, And he said, ‘The God of our fathers has appointed you to know His will and to see the Righteous One and to hear an utterance from His mouth.

    Again, The God of our fathers has chosen beforehand for you to know… preserves the predetermined aspect of the word.

    Acts 26:16 But get up and stand on your feet; for this purpose I have appeared to you, to appoint you a minister and a witness not only to the things which you have seen, but also to the things in which I will appear to you;

    And once again, “to choose you beforehand as a minister… presents the full meaning of our word.
     
  2. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,409
    Likes Received:
    328
    Says you. Context Van, context. In verse 18 Peter said :"But this is how God fulfilled what he had foretold through all the prophets, saying that his Messiah would suffer." So you are wrong about "the predetermined nature of the selection being hidden."

    The word appointed is quite sufficient. It is used for this verse in the NIV, NLT, ESV, (your favs), as well as the NASB and HCSB. Darby has "foreordained." WEB has "ordained." Weymouth has "appointed beforehand."

    Using "chosen beforehand" isn't that bad; it's just not as good.
    Again, "chosen beforehand" isn't a bad choice, but "appointed" doesn't lose any "predetermined as pect of the word."

    The following versions use "appointed." :
    ESV, NASB, HCSB, Weymouth and WEB.

    The NET,NIV and NLT have "chosen."
    Not a bad rendering. You're doing better than former posts of yours. The following versions have "appoint." :

    NIV, NLT, HCSB, ESV, NASB, Darby, WEB and WEB. Weymouth has "appointing."
     
  3. Van

    Van
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    9,516
    Likes Received:
    49
    1) The fact that the choice was made beforehand is hidden in Acts 3:20.
    2) Appointed misrepresents the action as not having occurred beforehand.
    3) Translating the word as chosen beforehand presents the full message of God.
     
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,114
    Likes Received:
    52
    So you would be disagreeing with your favorite translation in all of these verses then?

    Your schoalarship would be trumping theirs to translate?

    And just curious, you do realise that the Nasb has had some reformed/calvinists on their team to translate it, right?
     
  5. Van

    Van
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    9,516
    Likes Received:
    49
    Did you finally realize all translation versions have faults, none are perfect? I know others have claimed I only show flaws in some translations, but that view is just another fiction.

    Truth trumps falsehood. No translator claims infallibility, that is why revisions come out over time.

    This thread is about the meaning of G4400, Procheirzo; and this compound word presents the idea of the hand of God influencing or choosing someone beforehand for His purpose. So “grasping beforehand” or already chosen or choose someone beforehand seems to be the literal meaning. To leave "pro" meaning beforehand out of the translation hides the full message of God, or so I believe.
     
    #5 Van, Aug 14, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 14, 2014
  6. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,409
    Likes Received:
    328
    No, it's the truth.

    To leave "pro" meaning beforehand out of the translation hides the full message of God, or so I believe.[/QUOTE]
    I emboldened that phrase in order that you can be impacted with your own words.
     
  7. Van

    Van
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    9,516
    Likes Received:
    49
    I have demonstrated flaws in the NASB, NET, HCSB, WEB, NKJV, NIV, ESV, and NLT. All translations have flaws. For you to repeated present my view as something else is fiction.
    1) The fact that the choice was made beforehand is hidden in Acts 3:20.
    2) Appointed misrepresents the action as not having occurred beforehand.
    3) Translating the word as chosen beforehand presents the full message of God.​
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,114
    Likes Received:
    52
    4) Appointed is perfectly acceptable, as many bible versions have their translators using that term!
     
  9. Van

    Van
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    9,516
    Likes Received:
    49
    Yes, many translations translate the word and leave out the meaning of "pro" i.e. beforehand. So to choose a translation that presents the full meaning of the word is superior.

    Consider Acts 26:16, where they were chosen before they had witnessed some of the things they would testify about.
     
  10. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,409
    Likes Received:
    328
    On the contrary Mr. Van, you are displaying your lack of veracity. The last three versions you have called "worthless" repeatedly. That is why you got an infraction.
     
  11. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,409
    Likes Received:
    328
    None of your favorite translations such as NASB, NET,WEB, HCSB and so forth have that rendering. So were does that leave you with your pronouncements?
     
  12. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,409
    Likes Received:
    328
    According to Van, the textual authority.

    What do you do with Acts 13:48 : When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honoured the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.

    Most translations use the word "appointed" and it works just fine. The orthodox understanding of this verse recognizes that the appointment for eternal life was made before the foundation of the world. Further, a sound understanding of this passage is the realization that the Gentiles came to believe under the preaching of Paul and Barnabas as an instrument of that decree.
     
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,114
    Likes Received:
    52
    Guess that means he gets to correct them?
     
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,114
    Likes Received:
    52
    But that orthodox viewpoint is where van would see that they have made a mistake!
     
  15. Van

    Van
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    9,516
    Likes Received:
    49
    The subject change post yet again, does Acts 13:48 contain G4400, procheirzo?

    Neither Rippon nor Yeshua1 even seem to know how to do word studies, so nothing they say goes beyond "taint so!"

    Returning to topic:
    1) The fact that the choice was made beforehand is hidden in Acts 3:20.
    2) Appointed misrepresents the action as not having occurred beforehand.
    3) Translating the word as chosen beforehand presents the full message of God.​
     
    #15 Van, Aug 20, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 20, 2014
  16. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,409
    Likes Received:
    328

    No, you are wrong Van. I tried to explain to you that the word appoint (and its various forms) are used throughout the New Testament. I gave you Acts 13:48 for you to clearly see that you are mistaken. Using the word "appointed" does not obscure anything. It does not imply that the Lord's decree wasn't made in the past (before the foundation of the world). The Darby translation uses the word "foreordained" in Acts 3:20. Nothing is lost compared to using your phrase of "chosen beforehand."

     
  17. Van

    Van
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    9,516
    Likes Received:
    49
    The subject change post yet again, does Acts 13:48 contain G4400, procheirzo?

    Neither Rippon nor Yeshua1 even seem to know how to do word studies, so nothing they say goes beyond "taint so!"

    Returning to topic:

    1) The fact that the choice was made beforehand is hidden in Acts 3:20.
    2) Appointed misrepresents the action as not having occurred beforehand.
    3) Translating the word as chosen beforehand presents the full message of God.

    Words have meanings and the meanings have merit. Word for word translation philosophy allows the student to study God's chosen beforehand words.
     
  18. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,409
    Likes Received:
    328
    For the hard of hearing.
     
  19. Van

    Van
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    9,516
    Likes Received:
    49
    The subject change post yet again, does Acts 13:48 contain G4400, procheirzo?

    Neither Rippon nor Yeshua1 even seem to know how to do word studies, so nothing they say goes beyond "taint so!"

    Returning to topic:

    1) The fact that the choice was made beforehand is hidden in Acts 3:20.
    2) Appointed misrepresents the action as not having occurred beforehand.
    3) Translating the word as chosen beforehand presents the full message of God.

    Words have meanings and the meanings have merit. Word for word translation philosophy allows the student to study God's chosen beforehand words.
     
  20. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,409
    Likes Received:
    328
    Oh, so do we have to don our special Van glasses to detect what only Van can see?

    How silly of you. Take a look at the occurence of the word appoint and its forms and try to convince me that it does not convey it is God's decree made before the foundation of the world. Go on. I double-dog dare you Van.
    Says you Van --only you.

    I've told you before to make up a Van-tran. and with all of your expertise I'm sure you will be able to shame other so-called Bible scholars.
     

Share This Page

Loading...