Working with a Mormon

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by untangled, Jan 12, 2005.

  1. untangled

    untangled
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    Hello Brothers and Sisters,

    I was just wondering if any of you work with or are around mormons frequently. I actually got into a discussion with a mormon about my faith yesterday, which is nothing new. However, I noticed that it was extremely difficult getting a message across because of hardness of heart. He kept asking me what I believed.

    Anyway, there was something he said that puzzled me. I said within the conversation about striving to live a life that pleased God and doing my best for Him. He stated that was what the mormons would call egocentric. It puzzled me because he then started talking about becoming gods in eternity and being the same as God. I want to remind you that this was not an argument because we usually get along. I took him to the scriptures about my faith and it seemed that everything he believed was based on human reason.

    For example, they believe God is not Father, Son and Holy Spirit. No matter what scripture I explained he still said it didn't make sense. He then stated that God wanted to make things simple for people to understand, therefore God cannot be Trinity. It was like talking to a log.

    I know what you're thinking "What else is new?" I was just wondering if any of you have had similar experiences. Also, what is the best way to get through to someone caught in the lie called Mormonism?

    Any experiences would be nice to hear. Especially a mormon converting.

    In Christ,

    Brooks
     
  2. av1611jim

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    untangled;
    Here is my experience.
    While I was in prison we (that is our prayer group) had a young man wish to join us. He WAS Mormon. One at a time, at different times we would witness to him. He also had trouble with the Trinity, so I took him to several passages. First was in Isaiah 45.
    Isa 45:5
    ¶ I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
    Isa 45:6
    That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
    and;
    Isa 45:12
    I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.
    and;
    Isa 45:18
    For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.
    and;
    Isa 45:22
    Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
    Isa 45:23
    I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

    I asked him if this describes God the Father as creator. He said yes.
    THEN I took him to this;
    Isa 9:6
    For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

    I asked Him if the Son is called the Everlasting FATHER here. He had to admit, that indeed He is.
    then I took him to this;
    Php 2:10
    That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
    Php 2:11
    And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

    I asked him what he thought of Isaiah saying that every knee would bow to God the Father and Paul saying that every knee would bow to Jesus. No comment. (But I could see he was getting it)

    Then I took him to this;
    Tit 1:4
    To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.

    I asked him if this is saying that Jesus Christ is our Saviour. He admitted that yes He is and that he believed in Jesus.
    Then I took him to this;

    Tit 2:10
    Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.

    Then I asked him if this says that God is our Saviour. He said yes it does. Then I showed him the very next verses;

    Tit 2:11
    ¶ For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
    Tit 2:12
    Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
    Tit 2:13
    Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

    I said, you just admitted that God is our Saviour but this says that Jesus is our Saviour, and you said you believe that. In Isaiah you admitted that Jesus is called the Everlsting Father. He agreed. Then I asked him to think about it. If Jesus is called the Everlasting Father, and God is our Father, and God is our Saviour and Jesus is our Saviour, then they must be the same somehow. He said I was right. THEN HE TOOK HIS BOOK OF MORMON AND RIPPED IT APART AND GOT GLORIOUSLY SAVED RIGHT THEN!

    I have found that you MUST identify Jesus as God in the flesh. Not just some OTHER God, but Very God in the Flesh.
    This works to remove the veil for the one who sincerely wants the Truth. They who do not, will not repent of their unbelief. Nothing you can do about that.
    That's my experience. BTW my own brother has converted to Mormonism, because he refused to believe one could get saved simply by trusting Jesus alone. Sad for him. [​IMG]
    In HIS service;
    Jim
     
  3. robycop3

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    That was a good work by you, Jim, and happily it succeeded. But most Mormons are hardened against believing the Bible against the BOM and "the pearl Of great Price". they believe the KJV "only as far as it's properly translated", with it, or any other BV relegated to third place behind those two works of Smitty.

    I've had to often use TIME AND PATIENCE when evangelizing Mormons, JWs, SDAs, or those from other quasi-Christian cults. A general rule is to "KNOW THE ENEMY". Study these cults and their literature to learn their beliefs, and pray to God to show you the counters to their doctrines. Also, never start out by blasting their religion as a cult. THEY ARE CONDITIONED TO EXPECT THAT! I always ask them what they believe, and how they can support it. Over time, I show them the FALSE PROPHECIES od Smitty, Brigand Young, and a few others, and how they cannot possibly come to pass since the time frame has passed. Some of them actually believe God was born on some other planet and achieved Godhood by living the Mormon lifestyle. I remind them if that's true, then they're "children of a lesser God" hecause He who promotes is always greater than he whom He promotes, and they shoulda been worshipping the promotER rather than the promotEE.

    And always, when witnessing to any member of any of these cults, I silently ASK THE HOLY SPIRIT TO SPEAK THROUGH ME. I KNOW I'm up against a far-greater power than is found among men, and that I cannot hope to pierce its shield by myself.

    In summary: Know the enemy, ask God's help, and **BE PATIENT!**
     
  4. untangled

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    THanks for the post brother Jim.

    I took him to John chapter one and few other passages. His whole defense was that mormons believe that God's character can be figured out with common sense. Therefore, he stated three persons can not be God. They are three seperate Gods. Yet while saying Jesus was merely human he goes and calls him God. Confusing isn't it?

    it's alot easier to witness to an atheist in my humble opinion. I just can't see how any half intelligent person could read the book of Mormon and believe a quarter of what's in it.

    I once did a research paper on mormonism. However, I failed to do it right. I should have gotten more information on evangelizing mormons. It helps to know their beliefs but I wish I would have atleast read some material on evangelizing them.

    Sorry to hear about your brother. I will pray for him. Did he marry a mormon? Alot of people convert to marry. Just asking.

    In Christ,

    Brooks
     
  5. untangled

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    Good post roby.

    Knowing their false doctrines is important. One thing that truly bothers me is how even the younger teens can defend their lie better than some Christians can defend the truth.

    In Christ,

    Brooks
     
  6. Johnv

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    I had a mormon boss for 5 years. One of the nicest guys I ever worked with. I think the most we ever said in regards to beliefs was at lunch when saying "I believe I'll have seconds". Seriously though, we both knew each other's faiths: he respected me, and I respected him. I would hope that my faith was preached in how good of an empolyee I was. As scripture says of the Word, be doers, not just hearers.
     
  7. Bro Tony

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    Living in Arizona, I have had the opportunity of leading many Mormons to a saving knowledge of Jesus. I know alot about their doctrine, but when I have the opportunity to share with them I don't spend time on their beliefs. I share with them the Gospel truth, and as I do define my terms carefully because they use similar terms with different meanings, and let the Holy Spirit do what He does. I would be careful getting into a long argument with the everyday Mormon, they will just defend their church. Keep sharing the truth and God will call them to Himself.

    Bro Tony
     
  8. JackRUS

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  9. Trotter

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    JackRUS beat me to posting mrm.com. It is a very good site. I have their book, Mormonism 101...talk about an eye opener!

    I work with a Mormon lady, but she is not devout. She is divorced, drinks, smokes, and now has an "open" marriage. But boy did she get upset when she looked through Mormonism 101. She told me that if I wanted to know anything about Mormonism, to ask her. Why bother, when the book quotes the Mormons' high officials and founders.

    In Christ,
    Trotter
     
  10. Trotter

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    Bro Tony wrote:
    Dead on, brother! Mormons use the same terminology that we do...but they define them way different.

    In Christ,
    Trotter
     
  11. av1611jim

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    robycop3;
    Thanks. Believe me, this didn't just happen in one afternoon. It took months to win him. We did everything you mentioned and then some! :D

    untangled;
    Thanks. Yes my brother did marry a Mormon girl. She was not active at the time, but later when they had drug problems she went to her church for help. They then proselytized my brother. At the time that was going on, 2 deacons of my church were also working on him, by his invitation. We were raised in SBC. It all came to a head when she invited the missionaries to the house [/B]knowing[/B] the deacons had an appointment. BAD SCENE HAPPENED! Very heated, and well, the deacons lost their testimony, to put it mildly. [​IMG] So...Thanks for your prayers. All is not lost yet. They ain't dead!
    I have done tons of research on Mormonism. So, I ain't no babe in these woods. ;)

    Lots of good advice and counsel by all who have posted.
    I agree with everything mentioned.

    In HIS service;
    Jim
     
  12. untangled

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    Thanks for the posts everyone.

    First I would like to say that this individual and I did not fuss over it, though there were two specific comments that made me mad, I did not show it. That would just make for a bad situation. I have to work side by side with this guy for 24 hrs at a time. In most part it was a friendly discussion.

    I was surprised that he initiated it. He knows that I know what I believe and why I believe it. They usually prey upon those that do not (in my experience). I've learned that its hard to deal with people who raise another book greater than the Bible.

    I have read some of the Book of Mormon and Pearl of Great Price for a research paper. My conclusion was "How can anyone read this junk and believe it?"

    When someone takes a statement Christ made and twists it to say "You shall become gods" you know you're dealing with an unusual person.

    In Christ,

    Brooks
     
  13. R. Charles Blair

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    These are excellent posts, and the emphasis on use of Scripture is top-notch.

    Yet, as has been pointed out, a) Many cultists do not accept Scripture as final; b) some want to be
    "reasonable," that is, to use human logic. On that ground, here are two illustrations that may help (never forgetting the use of Scripture, the power of prayer, and the work of the Spirit).

    I. "Where is the sun? Out yonder in space, as matter/energy (interconvertable)?" "Sure." "No; on a sunny day, it is here in my eye as light."
    "But wait! It is here on my hand, as heat! Where is it?" "All three, of course - oops!" If we do not understand the sun, how can we fully understand God in Heaven, as ultimate energy, yet here as the Light of the world (Jesus) and as warmth to our souls (the Holy Spirit)?

    II. Take an ice cube, put it in the sink, and run hot water over it. What do you have? Steam rises; the cube melts. Three forms of H20, all in the same place and at the same time. I don't even understand an ice cube; how can I fully understand God? Yet I believe in the sun, and in the ice cube which can be solid, liquid, and gas all at the same time and in the same place, chemically identical yet each unique.

    I believe (according to Romans 1) that God has manifested His triune nature in the things that are made. Much more depth on this in the very fine work by Henry M. Morris, "Studies in the Bible and Science," and in "The Secret of the Universe," as I recall by W. M. Clough (that's from memory; seems like there is also another author who has dealt with the same ideas of our "tri-universe," but the name escapes me at the moment.
    Part of the penalty for trying to absorb too much information! Best - Charles - Ro. 8:28
     
  14. av1611jim

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    If I may add one more to R.Charles' analogies?

    Take and egg. You got the shell, the yolk, the white. You got egg-shell, egg-yolk, egg-white. Not one single part IS the egg, yet without any part you have NO egg.

    :rolleyes: Ok. That was weak! Sorry! [​IMG]

    In HIS service;
    Jim
     
  15. Scarlett O.

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    I teach with a Mormon woman.

    The rest of the faculty is Christian. I have tried privately and personally to talk to her about her beliefs and it is very difficult.

    She thinks that how she perceives Christ and how I perceive Christ is the same. But it isn't.

    Other teachers have privately tried to discuss the REAL Jesus Christ with her and to talk about the truth of the gospel.

    It is so far to no avail.

    We don't want to harass her or push so that she is uncomfortable around us all. But we are burdened for her.

    I don't have the definitive answer. I truly wish I did.

    Peace-

    YSIC
    Scarlett O.
    &lt;&gt;&lt;
     
  16. IveyLeaguer

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    Good thread. I love how the general theme of planting and standing firm on the Word, and letting the Holy Spirit work, comes across.
     
  17. Phillip

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    I'll add my 2 cents. There are a lot of good posts here so I don't know if I can add much, but I do want to list the main beliefs of a true Mormon and how it is interpreted.

    The key to the whole thing was mentioned above, by (I believe) Robycop3. The LDS religion is based on Christian terms, that do NOT mean the same thing to a Mormon as they do to people on the street.

    The religion is good at sucking people into its grips by using such things as "We believe and put our trust in Jesus Christ." and strong family values.

    Even the novice Mormon will never know the truth until they get to the level of being able to go through the temple ceremony. Especially a temple wedding.

    At THIS time, the Mormon candidate has to be recommended by his/her Bishop as candidates because they want to make sure that a weak Mormon does not come out of the ceremony and start preaching against the wild beliefs of Mormons.

    Here are some Mormon beliefs:

    1. Jesus is just another god who came from other planets where he became good enough to become a god (through the Mormon faith).

    2. Jesus and Satan are brothers.

    3. Baptism for the dead. (People have been known to have been drenched being dunked so many times for dead relatives at a temple ceremony. It is not uncommon for them to be dunked for 90 relatives.) This is the reason Mormons are so heavy into geneology.

    4. The god that created this world was friends with another god, and they created the world. They were previous gods, they now worship the jesus god.

    5. Much of the temple ceremony comes directly from Masons of which Joseph Smith was exposed to heavily.

    6. A person who dies who is not mormon reincarnates and get more chances to get it right. I'm not exactly sure, but I think the only person who goes to hell is someone who has embraced Mormonism and leaves it. (This is the way they keep members from leaving when they find the truth.)

    7. A GOOD Mormon continues to grow until he makes it to god status, then he can rule worlds and create his own worlds, where he can let people become good little Mormons.

    8. There are two groups the LDS and the RLDS. It so happens the LDS cannot build their temple back so the end of the world comes because the RLDS owns the land where Joseph Smith said it had to be built.

    9. Mormons hire the BEST ad agencies in the world to do their ads and with their missionary policy they are one of the fastest growing religions in the world. Many large businesses have Mormons in their board of directors, so they maintain a LOT of power in corporate America. Pepsico is one of those businesses that either had or still has many POWERFUL Mormons on its board of directors. (This covers KFC, Pizza Hut and all of the other companies under the Pepsico umbrella.) This may have changed, but it was factual at one time a few years back.

    I'll stop there, this is getting long.

    I have two brother-in-laws their wives and a mother-in-law who was or still is (there's hypocrites in all churches, even the church of Satan).
     
  18. IveyLeaguer

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    Thanks for the overview, Phillip. Well done.
     
  19. untangled

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    Thanks for the posts.

    Mormonism is extremely dangerous in my opinion. They come in as angels of light, but speak with lips of deceit. I am not denying that alot are nice, but so are alot of Christians. People go through a bad time at a church and see how the mormons all love each other. However, Jesus said we would be known by our love. In general I believe the church does love each other. People often speak about how Christians are hippocrits. Not most of us. We're human. We mess up. I have received much acceptance in God's family.

    For some reason I've always had a deep conviction about this lie. It horrifies me when I hear a Christian say they are our brothers and sisters in Christ. They are far from it! I pray that more pastors are warning their people about this heresy.

    In Christ,

    Brooks
     
  20. Phillip

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    You ARE right. They will even help a family out financially. (My brother-in-law has tapped into that a few times.) The idea is for the local Bishop to build an extremely STRONG group of people who will protect each other for any reason.

    Sadly, many young families get caught up in the cult because of this very reason.

    However, if you look closely, the women do NOT become gods. The women teach the girls how to sew, cook and be good mothers, while the men go on their "planning to become a god" meetings. Mormon's are taught to HAVE kids. The more little mormons you can produce, the faster the rise to be god.

    Good Mormon women get to become a god's wife. If she goes through the temple marriage ceremony with him, they are sealed for eternity and she keeps bearing children forever while he plays god. (NO JOKE.)

    My OTHER brother-n-law, who is also on welfare has fourteen kids(I believe at the last count). Now that he has two wives he can generate more little Mormons a lot faster.

    It was his wife (second wife) who decided he should have another wife (at the same time), so she helped him pick her out. SICK.
     

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