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Works show Salvation. . .

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Phillip, Nov 19, 2004.

  1. Phillip

    Phillip <b>Moderator</b>

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    So, I guess you are perfect, you have NO on-going sins? If you sin, it is only one time, you get forgiveness and you never repeat it? If not then it is a repetative sin. You don't have any, right?

    Bohemian boy's club is 90% urban legend, a boy's club where you can either drink or not. Much like the country club in your own town. I'm surpised that you know Billy Graham is a member. :confused:
     
  2. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    ---------------------------------------------------
    My point is that what you wrote earlier is not in line with what scripture teaches. The Bible teaches that one cannot name Christ as Lord except by the Holy Spirit. What you wrote is a twist on that of just saying you believe does not mean it is so. If today we were living within the same context of the NT it would be so.
    --------------------------------------------------

    Here is a wake up call for ya:

    James 2

    19. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.


    and....


    Matt. 8

    28. And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.
    29. And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?


    Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  3. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    --------------------------------------------------
    So, I guess you are perfect, you have NO on-going sins? If you sin, it is only one time, you get forgiveness and you never repeat it? If not then it is a repetative sin. You don't have any, right?
    --------------------------------------------------


    Don't confuse sins, with the fruits of salvation. You are clearly confused about this and try to make them both the same.


    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  4. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    --------------------------------------------------
    Bohemian boy's club is 90% urban legend, a boy's club where you can either drink or not. Much like the country club in your own town. I'm surpised that you know Billy Graham is a member.
    --------------------------------------------------


    Oh, really. This is absolutely not true. It is well known fact, and there is also a video tape out there that shows what goes on there in part. If you are interested, I will send it to you. YOu will be shocked. This is the club that the President, and Presidents prior to him, including Big daddy Bush, New World Order man, also was a participating guest to this club. I do not know about Billy Graham, but I would not be surprised one bit to find out that he has also taken part.


    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  5. AVL1984

    AVL1984 <img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>

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    Michelle, there you go again (to quote Ronald Reagan) putting words in my mouth and saying I believe something I do not. I'm really getting tired of your twisted views, and your trying to turn things around to fit your twisted interpretations of scriptures. I have NEVER said everyone was saved, nor do I believe it. You say I believe anyone who says they're saved, I believe. Again, this is a false allegation. I do not believe this, nor have I ever. The Bible indeeds says to let no man deceive us, but we are not the judge of a person's salvation. To say you are is to put yourself in the place of God almighty, and we know YOU in particular are not HIM. I've probably read more prophecy than you'll ever discover in your whole lifetime. Why don't you go and buy a hermeneutics book and learn how to properly and scipturally divide the Word of God? You sure could use it.
     
  6. AVL1984

    AVL1984 <img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>

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    Again a twisting and deflection by the Almighty Michelle. You again were asked direct questions and avoided them by twisting the conversation. Typical. How sad. I believe it's you who is confused. You seem to have no grasp on truth at all.
     
  7. AVL1984

    AVL1984 <img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>

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    Michelle says of Billy Graham and the Bohemian Grove:

    "I do not know about Billy Graham, but I would not be surprised one bit to find out that he has also taken part."

    AVL1984: Michelle, you truly are a false accuser of the brethren. I sincerely doubt Billy Graham has ever been there. Continued libels against Brother Graham won't go unanswered by me. Brother Graham has a far more humble spirit than you will ever have. Where is that "fruit of the spirit" in your life? It surely is not evident.
     
  8. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    Does anybody else here have the power to judge another's salvation beside Michelle.

    Tell me Michelle, am I saved? Since salvation I have committed many sins, I drank alcohol, lived a party lifestyle, lied, gossiped, been angry, had lustful thoughts, been judgemental, deceived people, as well as many things I have forgotten about.

    So, am I saved? Please tell me so that I can know whether or not I need to be saved.
     
  9. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    c4k,

    Don't confuse sins, with the fruits of salvation. You are clearly confused about this and try to make them both the same.


    Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  10. AVL1984

    AVL1984 <img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>

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    Michelle, please, IN YOUR OWN WORDS, explain the difference so we will all know...so we can understand so that we will understand...
     
  11. Phillip

    Phillip <b>Moderator</b>

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    AVL, good luck at getting a straight answer, you are just confused; like every pastor, layperson, minister and college professor on this board. :rolleyes:

    Let's determine if you are right?

    Fruits -- (as related to a Christian) -- The results and actions of a person's life as related to God. (My own definition, but it will do.)

    "good Fruits" -- "How many people will go to heaven as a direct or indirect result of your life." plus "How you further God's kingdom."

    "Sin" anything you do that is against God's will.

    Now, here is the rub, what is "bad fruit"? Michelle says Billy Graham produces "bad fruit". Obviously, it is sin and the results of sin.

    So, there is your answer. Fruit can be either the first answer, or the second answer. You're right, Michelle is wrong. She uses the terminology of "bad fruit" as synonymous with sin.

    Now, let's put it on the table, I guess Michelle might be partially right. Sin will produce bad fruit. Technically, a little different; but certainly not enough to tell a person "they are confused".

    Bottom line is, Dr. Billy Graham would have to "sin" to produce "bad fruit" because he would be going against God's will---therefore, she is saying that he is sinning.

    Wow, exactly the same thing she says she does?

    Now how do we judge which one is saved and which isn't? :confused:
     
  12. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Here is what is said about Billy Graham
    off cite:

    "He is on public record supporting homosexuality, abortion, his disbelief in a literal hell,
    his support and practice of infant baptism to save children, his support for the
    Catholic church's worship of Mary
    (yet he calls himself a Protestant).
    He has repeatedly praised infidels and
    apostates as great Christians. He
    actively supported the American government policy to fight the Vietnam War.
    He would not challenge the idea that
    the Bible is mythology, when directly questioned. The deception doesn't stop with
    the Protestants, Catholic supporters have been kept in the dark about his abortion views.
    The deception goes way beyond
    Protestant, Catholic beliefs."

    I decline to give a link to the site, someone
    might go astray going there.
    Here is the same passage between the lines
    but with the lies removed:

    -------------------------

    -------------------------

    I've worked for Billy Graham before
    as a counselor. He believes like i do
    or else i would not have worked for him.

    I find it a bad scene and a false teaching
    to teach that Billy Graham is somehow wrong.
    This false teaching is the teaching that
    somehow success is wrong.

    BTW, i can't find out how many millions
    of people have been brought to salvation
    by Graham and his ministry. So maybe
    only 1/4 of the 16 million Souls that
    I think were brought to salvation by
    Graham "stayed saved" -- that means that
    Graham was instermental in only 4 million
    salvations.

    Is there a bit of Jealousy about a
    group of Baptists with a membership under
    2 million that cannot tolerate a Graham
    that has helped over 4 million get saved?
     
  13. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    I still don't know if I am saved or not. When I get angry without cause there is not fruit of salvation. Was I lost when I was still drinking? These are definitely not fruits of savlation, so please Michelle, tell me if I am saved or not.
     
  14. AVL1984

    AVL1984 <img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>

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    Good luck C4K. :rolleyes:
     
  15. Phillip

    Phillip <b>Moderator</b>

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    Man, I'm in big trouble, I drank a beer about four years ago with my dad, who I thought was a Christian too, after my mom passed away. She would have killed us both, but we drank one apiece. Bad fruit. [​IMG]
     
  16. AVL1984

    AVL1984 <img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>

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    Well, let's see, Phillip, there are many Christians who don't believe it is unscriptural to drink. Both the abstainers and the drinkers have good scriptures to back their sides up. So, let's ask the expert... MICHELLE!?!
     
  17. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    I haven't had an alcoholic drink since 1976, but I was drunk after I got saved in 1974. Or did I actually get saved? Please tell me Michelle. Maybe I can get saved in church tomorrow if I am not.
     
  18. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    Matt 7 is talking about how to discern false teachers -- it is not talking about how to find out if someone is saved or not.
     
  19. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Excellent point, Marcia. Can't find a verse that will let me know which person is saved and which isn't. But I can see false teaching and rebuke it.

    Have on more than one thread . . .
     
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