Worship - Evangelize or Edify?

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by VoiceInTheWilderness, Jan 24, 2003.

  1. VoiceInTheWilderness

    VoiceInTheWilderness
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    I'm really interested in hearing some responses to what seems to me to be one of the most heated in-house debates of Baptist churches in America today....

    What are the primary purposes of a worship service?

    1)Some say it's evangelism.... (The seeker sensitives.)
    2)Some say it's edification of the saints....

    Let's leave out the primary purpose - which is to glorify God. Anyone who cannot understand that this is to always be first cannot aptly comment on the secondary purposes.

    [ January 24, 2003, 10:11 PM: Message edited by: VoiceInTheWilderness ]
     
  2. swordsman

    swordsman
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    Great Post, I would have to say edification of the saints.
    I believe that the church building is a place for like minded believers to gather, sing praises to the Lord, recieve instruction,fellowship and to be strengthnd/rebuked by the preaching of the Word of God.
    I do not feel the lost should be the MAIN focus there.
    We are living in this wicked world most of the week , we need to be in the house of the Lord as much as possible.

    [ January 24, 2003, 10:51 PM: Message edited by: swordsman ]
     
  3. Jeff Weaver

    Jeff Weaver
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    Would have to go with the edification of the saints.

    Jeff.
     
  4. Caretaker

    Caretaker
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    Heb. 10:
    21: And having an high priest over the house of God;
    22: Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
    23: Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)
    24: And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
    25: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

    I would think that the communal worship is for the exhortation of the saints and the edifying of the Body.

    A servant of Christ,
    Drew
     
  5. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
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    Show me one place where the church met (after Pentecost and its birth) and there were unbelievers even present . . much less the "focus" of the service.

    Isn't one. Hmmmm. What do you suppose I deduce from that? :confused:
     
  6. Bob Farnaby

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    Unfotunately too many DO leave out the prime purpose .. to glorify God ...

    As the unregenerate can't glorify the God tey don't belive in, the secondary purpose is to edify and build up the saints.

    Regards
    Bob
     
  7. Molly

    Molly
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    Glorifying God has to be the first and foremost reason for anything we do...can't emphasize that enough....then the believers that meet together are built up in the faith through the preaching of the word,singing,giving,and whatever other forms of worship take place.
     
  8. Illinoisboy

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    I would have to say the edification and equipping of believers, so that they (we) can better evangelize the lost.
     
  9. All about Grace

    All about Grace
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    I would have to suggest that worship should involve both purposes but not necessarily both having equal importance.

    1) Glorifying God
    2) Uplifting/Edification of believers
    3) Serving as a witness to unbelievers/seekers who are present

    The implication that seeker SENSITIVE services design their worship strictly for evangelism purposes is a misnomer and misrepresents the paradigm.
     
  10. Molly

    Molly
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    Rick Warren's book says their church is strictly for evangelism...he even states,if you don't like that go somewhere else. So,what is seeker sensitive? Why is it called that if the primary purpose is not evangelism? Why such a play on words?
     
  11. All about Grace

    All about Grace
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    Can you give me the exact quote where Warren says there church is strictly for evangelism?

    Once again, you demonstrate your lack of understanding of Warren's overall paradigm. If Saddleback becomes strictly about evangelism, they have fallen into the very trap about which Warren vehemently warns and guards against (a church focused upon only one purpose).

    Being seeker-sensitive does not mean that every single thing you do in church life is strictly for evangelism.

    Have you read Warren's Purpose-Driven Life? I think you would find his chapters on worship very interesting. He even quotes John Piper on more than one occasion! It might help clarify some of your obvious misunderstandings.

    Have you had an opportunity to answer my other questions in the "Contemporary" thread in the other forum?
     
  12. Molly

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    Page 39,second paragraph.... :D
     
  13. TomVols

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    1 Cor 14:23-25 speaks to the possibility.

    That being said, the purpose of the church is worship. Worship can be a powerful witness, but the cart must not come before the horse.
     
  14. VoiceInTheWilderness

    VoiceInTheWilderness
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    Let it be stated that my question was not bait to attract those whom I disagree with to comment only so I could attack their position (like some of the threads on this board) However, I do hold to the second view put forth which is that worship is primarily to glorify God and edify the saints. I am interested in some good discussion on this topic, since I'm am soon to be in the office of a pastor and must be able to Biblically promote the truth in a way that is pleasing to God.

    Original quote by SBCbyGrace
    Any service that gears everything it does for the last fifteen minutes during the altar call, is designed strictly for evangelism. Make no mistake - that's exactly what many churches do. All the singing, and the preaching, and everything that is done is to get people to come forward and make decisions "Professions" of faith. Therefore they do everything they can to get lost people in the doors so that they can get them to come forward. Rick Warren and Bill Hybels are some of the nation's leading proponents of just such a philosophy.
     
  15. All about Grace

    All about Grace
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    A few obvious flaws in your post reveal the consistent tendency of some to generalize or misrepresent those with whom they disagree over philosophy and/or methods. W/o time for discussion right now, I will just point out the obvious:

    1) Hybels' and Warren's philosophy are somewhat similar but very distinct. To lump them together reveals your own lack of research.

    2) Most contemporary models do not even have altar calls, so your reasoning is flawed.

    3) Neither are most of them seeking merely professions of faith.

    4) Neither do they do "everything they can to get lost people in the door." Hybles, for example, emphasizes the necessity of building relationships.

    5) Neither is the goal to get people to "come forward" (refer to #2).

    If you want to actually discuss the validity of a particular model, I am willing. If you are merely in the "lump them altogether because they do it differently than me," then there is enough of that going on regularly. :rolleyes:
     
  16. JIMNSC

    JIMNSC
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    While we're waiting on Jesus to come again...

    1 Thessalonians 5:11  ¶Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.
     
  17. VoiceInTheWilderness

    VoiceInTheWilderness
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    1) I think anyone who goes out of their way to make sinners feel comfortable in a worship service has the same philosophy.

    2) Who said anything about contemporary?

    3) Really, what are they seeking? If they are concerned about evangelism?

    4) Why build a relationship if you don't want them to come to church?

    5) Why have an altar call if you don't want them to come forward?

    It's obvious that you and I are not communicating very well here. I'm not looking for a debate, just some honest dialoge about a serious issue. There's no question that this is probably the most disputed topic amongst solid BAPTIST churches in this country.

    I'm not suggesting that everything that those two say is unprofitable. I am familiar with Warren's ideas about not being centered on one single purpose and I think He's right on that particular point. But the over-riding question goes deeper than someones methods.

    The question in particular is which takes higer priority in a worship service - evangelism or edification?

    [ January 26, 2003, 12:13 AM: Message edited by: VoiceInTheWilderness ]
     
  18. donnA

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    I agree it is to edify the believer, to glorify God. but what do you do when the unbeliever comes to church? And how many times have I read on here peopole complaining if the preacher doesn't present the gospel in every sermon? If all the poeple are believers, then there is no need to preach on how to become/or the need of being saved/ becoming a christian. I can't see why if it were to be both(preaching to edify the believer, and evangelisim to the lost present in the room) it can't be glorifying God.
    What are you going to do tell unbelivers not to come in.
     
  19. Pete

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    Define "worship" [​IMG]

    Pete
     
  20. VoiceInTheWilderness

    VoiceInTheWilderness
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    Original quote by Kate
    You ask a great question. I'm afraid that all the discussion has somehow confused the issue. Obviously if a lost person comes to church (and they do all the time) we want to present the gospel as plainly as possible in the message wherever we can. (The Holy Spirit usually directs in that). And yes I'm not against an appeal for sinners to trust Christ and be saved at every meeting. That is of the highest concern.

    The discussion was with regard to the mindset and personal positions of churches altogether. What they felt their priorities are and how the Bible models the way in which we do things. Certainly if a person gets saved at a worship service I'm going to rejoice with the angels and praise God, another sinner has repentented.

    But should I gear everything I do simply to cater to the lost in my church?

    [ January 26, 2003, 08:23 AM: Message edited by: VoiceInTheWilderness ]
     

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