Worship=Singing=Worship?

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Glen Seeker, May 15, 2003.

  1. Glen Seeker

    Glen Seeker
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    I'm asking this because all of my contact with Protestants comes from forums like this or from the radio.

    On one Prot. radio show, the host always asks the audience to join in worship before he begins his spiel. Then a quartet comes on and sings a song.
    Is this what you all mean by the word worship?

    I also hear the term worship leader used to refer to what seems to me to be a choir leader.

    Does singing a hymn, song, ditty, whatever...equal worship in Prot. churches? If it does, then I can see why you all say that we Cat'lics worship Mary or Joseph or any of the saints.

    What does "worship" mean?
     
  2. Yelsew

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    Those are but some forms of worship, they are not all inclusive. They are meant to draw the people's focus to the one who is the object of Christian worship, Jesus the Christ.

    There are many forms of worship ranging from enclosing one's self in the corner of a closet in prayer and meditation, to singing in the choir, to playing a musical instrument, to kneeling at the altar, to tending the nursery and much, much, more.

    God has not told us that he accepts only one form of worship. So protestants have a freedom in worship.

    It is not the form that is important, it is the object of worship and the attitude of the worshipper.
     
  3. Singer

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    Glen Seeker:

    Why is it that Protestant sermons are spiels and their songs are ditties?

    Would this be compared to a more rightful Holy History Lesson with stints
    from the Bible (where appropriately fitting to Catholicism) given by a priest
    who is claiming to preach the infallible word according to a body of modern
    day informants with connections to a bachelor in Italy who they call "Father"
    while chanting unlegible and unintelligible sporadic repetitions created by
    Mongolian Monks, hailing Mary full of grace with 40 followups of "and also
    with you"...?

    Is that the true worship?
     
  4. Yelsew

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    Excellent observation Singer!
     
  5. SolaScriptura in 2003

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    Worship is obedience and one thing God has commanded is singing praise to Him. One thing He never asked for & certainly didn't command is that we bow to a cracker; therefore, it is not worship but willworship & idolatry.
     
  6. MikeS

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    Do you find it offensive when non-Christians refer to Christ as "dead Jew on a stick?" If so, then quit going out of your way to offend Catholics in exactly the same manner.
     
  7. Yelsew

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    Excellent response MikeS. It is obvious we all are siblings, we certainly use the hurtful language siblings use for oneupsmanship.

    I would like to see Solascriptura in 2003 give a detailed explanation of why he thinks that the Eucharist is what he said it is. But of course he really doesn't need to, we already know where he is coming from.

    Even so, I have posted on another topic why I disagree with the Catholic belief regarding Eucharist.
     
  8. MikeS

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    Do you find it offensive when non-Christians refer to Christ as "dead Jew on a stick?" If so, then quit going out of your way to offend Catholics in exactly the same manner. </font>[/QUOTE]Let me go further and quote an excellent recent example of Christian charity and respect by a non-Catholic who nonetheless attempts to present the Catholic belief in a sincere fashion:

    I thanked him for his fair statement of Catholic belief (while pointing out that it is the Holy Spirit, not the priest, who transforms the elements). You would do well to show as much charity as Paul of Eugene does.
     
  9. Gayla

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    Worship is humbling yourself before Almighty God, and He alone is worthy of our worship. Some songs will fall into the category of worship, some do not. Worship and praise are 2 different things. then there is service. The music or choir director is called a worship leader frequently, but, to me, not appropriately.
     
  10. SolaScriptura in 2003

    SolaScriptura in 2003
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    I'd like a detailed explanation of what you think I said the Eucharist is.

    The only non-Christian I've ever seen refer to Him as such is yourself. But I must say, that anyone who can't see the difference between insulting a senseless cracker and a man needs to sit down and contemplate his sanity for a while.

    [ May 16, 2003, 12:20 AM: Message edited by: SolaScriptura in 2003 ]
     
  11. MikeS

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    The only non-Christian I've ever seen refer to Him as such is yourself. But I must say, that anyone who can't see the difference between insulting a senseless cracker and a man needs to sit down and contemplate his sanity for a while. </font>[/QUOTE]OK, you've run up you colors here for all to see. You know you're being insulting and you choose to be insulting. At least there's no mistaking now who and what you are.
     
  12. SolaScriptura in 2003

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    Tell me, can your cracker move of it's own free will? Can it see? Can it hear?

    By the way, in your quotation of Paul of Eugene, he is NOT discussing the adoration of the host but transubstantiation. I, on the otherhand, am not discussing transubstantiation but the adoration of the host. You can't compare statements on differing subjects like you are attempting.

    Need I refer you to Foxe's Book of Martyrs where he speaks of Protestants being forced by Catholic princes to attend Mass and being so outraged at this idolatry, they snatched the "host" from the hands of the priest and threw it on the ground and stomped on it, for which they were then put to the rack, tortured, and then burned at the stake? If only men of these modern times could have such conviction against idolatry as they!

    Which is worse? Throwing a cracker-idol on the ground or killing a man for throwing a cracker-idol on the ground? How about forcing a man against his will to go to the place where the cracker-idol is adored?
     
  13. GraceSaves

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    So, where again is it in the Bible that says, when facing oppression, one should insult the oppressors? I must have missed that verse. Because to a Catholic, desecrating the host means to desecrate Christ. You can believe whatever you want; disrespecting others beliefs is not a Christian virtue. Preach the truth all you want, but I don't think that means you are to walk into a Mosque or Jewish Temple and start breaking things, is it? If that is not acceptable (unless you wish to now tell everyone that it is), then how is desecrating a host, considered the most precious thing in a Catholic Church building?

    I await your response.

    God bless,

    Grant
     
  14. MikeS

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    While I have no interest in answering any of your silly "cracker" questions (in any case you surely aren't interested in my answers), my point about Paul of Eugene is that he was able to discuss a Catholic belief, one which he does not hold, with fairness and courtesy.

    Whatever the topic being discussed, insults are never required, they are always a choice.
     
  15. SolaScriptura in 2003

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    You will note that these persons were required on threat of death to attend the idolatrous ceremony. You will note also that during the time in which this thing happened, the RCC was killing thousands of people for simply NOT GOING TO MASS. Here, the RCC murders thousands for not going to Mass, and what do you complain about? A couple of guys that they compelled to go to Mass threw the host on the ground. OOOO, that's obviously worse than murdering people, isn't it? (Sarcasm!) In the Catholic religion, to desecrate the host means to desecrate Christ...what does murdering those for whom Christ died mean in the Catholic religion? Nothing apparently! The RCC just threw "Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me" right out the window.

    Lets read a little story, shall we?

    "Jacob Birone, a schoolmaster of Rorata, for refusing to change his religion, was stripped quite naked; and after having been very indecently exposed, had the nails of his toes and fingers torn off with red-hot pincers, and holes bored through his hands with the point of a dagger. He then had a cord tied round his middle, and was led through the streets with a soldier on each side of him. At every turning the soldier on his right hand side cut a gash in his flesh, and the soldier on his left hand side struck him with a bludgeon, both saying, at the same instant, 'Will you go to Mass? will you go to Mass?' He still replied in the negative to these interrogatories, and being at length taken to the bridge, they cut off his head on the balustrades, and threw both that and his body into the river."

    Now, does that seem like a nice way to invite someone to church? It looks to me like the RCC was asking to have the host thrown down.

    Now then, If you were forced by some Pagans upon threat of death, at knifepoint even, to attend some idolatrous festival, would you get so stirred up with rage against their idolatry that you would topple the idol? Apparently not. Apparently you would join in and bow to the idol in the interest of political correctness. And this is really what you do at the Mass everytime you attend. The Mass is not Christian but Paganism infiltrating "Christianity" - and why? Because Catholics of past ages couldn't stand up to Paganism as those Protestants already mentioned obviously could and did.

    [ May 16, 2003, 02:05 AM: Message edited by: SolaScriptura in 2003 ]
     
  16. MikeS

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    Where in the world is all this coming from? Your entire first comment was:

    And now you're trying to justify your insult by bringing in the Foxe's Book of Martyrs (a notably unreliable source, BTW). Is your argument that you are justified in insulting Catholic beliefs because some Catholics killed some Protestants 400 years ago? Seems to me like you're just squirting out a bunch of ink to cloud up the waters regarding your original comment.
     
  17. SolaScriptura in 2003

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    No, that's just some addition to my thrid post and was a reply to GraceSaves (who took note of the oppression mentioned) not to yourself. My first & 2nd posts need no justification - worshipping a cracker is idolatry.
     
  18. Glen Seeker

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    Singer,



    I don't know why you take such offense at my question. I consider any radio program where one person expounds his opinion a spiel. Catholic, Protestant or infomercial.

    As far as songs and ditties go, I've sung with my church choir for over twenty years now and must say that some of the music that I have seen and sung in that time do amount to no more than ditties. (I have to admit though, that I'll take the ditties anytime over "Christian Rock" music.)
     
  19. Ps104_33

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    All the earth shall worship thee, and shall sing unto thee; they shall sing to thy name. Selah. psalm 66:4

    And all the congregation worshipped, and the singers sang, and the trumpeters sounded: and all this continued until the burnt offering was finished. 2 Chron 29:28

    Moreover Hezekiah the king and the princes commanded the Levites to sing praise unto the LORD with the words of David, and of Asaph the seer. And they sang praises with gladness, and they bowed their heads and worshipped. 2Chron 29:30
     
  20. thessalonian

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    So Sola,

    Some of Foxes book is of questionable historical value but do you think there are any protestant attrocities to speak about? Martyr Luther suggested the slaughter of one group that he didn't agree with. (don't recall here name offhand). Calvin gave thumbs up to the burning of the Universalist Servetus, Catholic priests and nuns were killed in Britian for sport. Can you tell me there were no baptist pastors in the KKK? So if you want to talk about atrocities we can go there. Some of it was governments excercising there authority to keep the peace as according to Romans 13 and some of it was vile sin. God will be the judge. Noone has ever said Catholics do not sin and throughout the ages there have been far more of it so your likely to find more questionable characters in the group. Your point proves nothing other than your intense hatred for Catholics which has become apparent from your posts over the last couple of weeks.

    Blessings
     

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