Worship Woes

Discussion in 'Music Ministry' started by Onlybygrace, Mar 22, 2012.

  1. Onlybygrace

    Onlybygrace
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2009
    Messages:
    247
    Likes Received:
    0
    Why is it that the worship ministry seems constantly plagued by spiritual immaturity? Pride, pettiness, backbiting and division seem to be part and parcel of this ministry and the people involved in it. I have been involved in being part of, leading and training worship teams for 25 years and I have yet to see and exception. Maybe I've been in all the wrong churches or had the wrong approaches. How do you guys make a success of it? Thoughts?
     
  2. annsni

    annsni
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,190
    Likes Received:
    373
    I think you need to be a "pastor" to the team. You need to counsel, teach, guide, lead and sometimes discipline them. Our current worship leader is doing a great job of this. :)
     
  3. gb93433

    gb93433
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    15,496
    Likes Received:
    6
    Jesus lasted three years in ministry. Paul was plagued by the same thing. People have a voice in churches with no responsibility unlike in the place where they work.
     
  4. David Lamb

    David Lamb
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2006
    Messages:
    2,982
    Likes Received:
    0
    I wonder if I am the only person who does not understand what the phrases "worship ministry" and "worship teams" mean? All Christians worship, don't they? If I knew what the phrases meant, then I could possibly answer the question in the OP. :)
     
  5. annsni

    annsni
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,190
    Likes Received:
    373
    It would be the group of people that lead the congregation in song.
     
  6. matt wade

    matt wade
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2009
    Messages:
    6,156
    Likes Received:
    76
    I think you may need to expound on this statement a bit more. Are you inferring that Jesus was only able to tolerate being in the "ministry" for 3 years?
     
  7. Onlybygrace

    Onlybygrace
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2009
    Messages:
    247
    Likes Received:
    0
    Lol....David I don't think I've interacted with you on this site before but I like your response and I agree with you. I'm an "EVERMAN" believer. Everyman an evangelist, everyman a worshipper, everyman an intercessor.
    But to help with your query, this observation in my OP is shared in the context of "modern christian ministry" where there is a title and sub comittee for everything. So here I am talking about the guys who get up in fromnt of the church with instruments and microphones and lead the singing etc. I think you pose an interesting inadvertant question though...should that even be considered a ministry and formalised?
     
  8. David Lamb

    David Lamb
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2006
    Messages:
    2,982
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks, Onlybygrace (and Ann too).

    Personally, I don't think that those who lead the singing should be considered a formalised "ministry", and I would say the same regardless of whether we are thinking of people like your "guys who get up in front of the church with instruments and microphones", or a single organist (or other instrumentalist) who may lead the singing almost out of sight.

    As for your question: "Why is it that the worship ministry seems constantly plagued by spiritual immaturity?", could it be at least partly due to the fact that the members of such bands are far more likely to be young in age, and for that reason alone, there would be few mature Christians among them? Also, the very fact that they are positioned "in front of the church" could contribute to the pride. (And of course, this is something preachers need to be on their guard against).

    I also think that there is a danger in using phrases like "worship ministry" and "worship teams" to describe people who lead the singing; it seems to give the false idea that only the musical parts of the service are worship!
     
  9. Aaron

    Aaron
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2000
    Messages:
    15,655
    Likes Received:
    225
    It's part and parcel with all forms of exhibitionism.
     
  10. J.D.

    J.D.
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2006
    Messages:
    3,553
    Likes Received:
    8
    :applause::applause::applause:
     
  11. gb93433

    gb93433
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    15,496
    Likes Received:
    6
    Do you recall the attitude of several when Isaac Watts introduced many of the same hymns we sing today?
     
  12. Gina B

    Gina B
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2000
    Messages:
    16,944
    Likes Received:
    1
    It's a good question.

    Wonder if anyone knows?

    When did stuff like worship teams and choirs start? Was it always a part of Christianity? Was it always part of the church?

    It would be interesting to figure that out cause usually if you go back to the beginning of something that now has a problem, you can trace back and find out if it's a probably based in what it is rooted in (like a bad root) or if it diverged at some point from a good root and THEN problems started, etc.. With something as big as this I think that would be the only way to really track the problem and figure it out.
     
  13. gb93433

    gb93433
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    15,496
    Likes Received:
    6
    They crucified Him. He was thrown out of the synagogue. I really think it was that they could not tolerate Jesus any longer.
     
  14. David Lamb

    David Lamb
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2006
    Messages:
    2,982
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm only 62, so even my many-times-great-grandfather wasn't a twinkle in his mother's eye when Isaac Watts' hymns were first introduced. :laugh:

    However, I cannot see the connection between Isaac Watts writing hymns and "all forms of exhibitionism". There may have been those who believed that only the psalms should be sung in worship, but such people weren't ranting against exhibitionism, at least, not in the sense used in this thread, that is, referring to the practice of having a group of musicians out in front of the congregation supposedly "leading" the sung worship.
     
  15. saturneptune

    saturneptune
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    13,977
    Likes Received:
    0
    Our pastor was recently on vacation, and I did a Wednesday night Bible study on Psalms 150, the last Psalm and a great way to praise the Lord. Anyway, several points came up, and one is the present hymn book. We know the Psalms was some of the hymns they sang back then. We also know that the Lord inspired the book of Psalms. First of all, I want to say I love singing from the hymn book, as it was in essence all I have ever known even in the Presbyterian Church growing up. Songs like Holy, Holy, Holy, and Joyful, Joyful We Adore Thee sing to my soul.

    However, they are not inspired, and there is nothing special about them compared to more modern forms of praise music. My like or dislike of a type of music has nothing to do with how a song praises the Lord, it has to do with the message it conveys. Does it line up with Scripture? So many of us have taught ourselves that something is more pleasing to the Lord about songs in a Baptist hymn book. The fact is, if we could hear the original songs sang in Psalms, we would not like them either. Anyway, I have come to the conclusion that the modern music praises the Lord just as much as the hymn book. Having a hymn book in your hand, using an organ and piano, and striking up a stanza of Amazing Grace does not make the Lord smile more than a Praise Band and the words on a screen.

    Since I am sixty, and most of the audience was more than ten years older than me, it was a tough crowd. LOL. They really do not like the words that say praise the Lord with dancing. (another thread, LOL)

    Anyway, any style of music that worships and praises the Lord is wonderful. It is all good, and God bless those who lead music, and give us special music, because people like me sound like the last gasp of a car horn.

    I do have one favor to ask, somewhere there is a web site someone showed me where someone tried to recreate the songs of Psalms using the intruments back then. Psalms 150 was one of them, to give us an idea what they might have sounded like. Does anyone know where this web site is?
     
  16. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    Singing in the churches has always been congregational. "Worship teams" has been of very recent origin. There is no evidence that in the early churches there was the use of any musical instruments at all. In fact the men during the Reformation era frowned upon instruments. Charles Spurgeon, John Wesley, Adam Clarke all prohibited them.

    Wesley said, "I am not against instruments, just not in my church."
    Spurgeon said that an organ would take the congregation away from the focus of worship which should be totally on the Savior and not on music.

    Now music has become the focus of entertainment, much like the Gaither Gospel hour, where the people applaud the performer instead of praising God. When applause is given in the church it is man-centered. It is almost always for the person. God needs no applause. God has need of nothing. He desires our worship, not our cheers, not our entertainment.

    There may be some latitude in different types of music. But, historically there was no such thing as "worship teams." All are commanded to worship.
     
  17. gb93433

    gb93433
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    15,496
    Likes Received:
    6
    If I remember right Isaac Watt's hymns were named as from the Devil among various other things. Any time change is made, there are the opposers. Even if the change is good and needed. I have seen the opposers come with Satan's head even when people were coming to Christ and begin to do genuine ministry.
     
  18. Gina B

    Gina B
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2000
    Messages:
    16,944
    Likes Received:
    1
    Okay, when I read something like this, it sounds a little odd to me because when praise is spoken of in the Bible, it talks about harps, lyres, a number of instruments...some that remain in common use and some not so much and maybe not at all. I'm not sure since I've not been everywhere, but that's not the point.

    How did the format for how we worship together in Baptist churches today get started?

    I don't know.

    If anyone has any reading material that focuses on this, I'd really appreciate you letting me know what it is. I'd really like to know more about how Baptist churches formed and became what they are now. Did we always have choirs? If not, where did that concept come from? Obviously we didn't always have worship teams, but if music was any part of how Christians met together in churches it would make sense that there were people who knew how to play instruments or somehow led in some way, or was singing/music always separate from meetings?
     
  19. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    Singing was always part of worship. It is commanded in Scripture.
    The OT worship was done with instruments. Solomon set up elaborate choirs and used many instruments when the Temple was erected in his time. However, in the NT, the body is the temple of God, and worship is primarily done privately and not corporately. The emphasis on corporate gatherings was to learn doctrine and to pray.
    In Acts 12 the church met to pray for the deliverance of Peter.
    In Acts 20 the church met for preaching interspersed with the breaking of bread. It was a very long service.

    The organ was first introduced some 300 years after the apostles, and then it was primarily used by the Catholic Church. It took a long time for just organs and pianos to be accepted in the churches.

    Other instruments are relatively new in our culture.
    In other cultures (third world countries), they still use some instruments that would be similar to what the Israelites used in the OT. The are different but not wrong. They have been used for decades if not centuries. Where I was they were always used in a very conservative manner. Then the western culture invaded with the advent of their access to television. Suddenly the music took a turn for the worse. No longer was it all conservative as it had been down throughout previous decades. They began to imitate western culture putting a heavy beat where there was none before. It ruined their music, and it ruined their worship. Then came the loudspeakers where the music was turned up louder then the one speaking--an ear-splitting decibel level. Their simple way of worship had been torn apart by the cheap imitation of the western world.

    The Word says: "Love not the world neither the things of the world."
     
  20. saturneptune

    saturneptune
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    13,977
    Likes Received:
    0
    Following Psalm 150 solves all these questions.
     

Share This Page

Loading...