Worth a Look! "Thinking about doing a PhD?"

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges / Seminaries' started by Rhetorician, Sep 9, 2011.

  1. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician
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    Hello to all:

    Not much going on here in the last few days. Thought I would liven things up a bit. For anyone thinking of doing the terminal PhD research degree I came across this blog article. Thought I would post it for public consumption.

    Enjoy!!! FYI!!!

    I would like to hear your thoughts? :flower:

    http://stackblog.wordpress.com/thinking-about-a-phd/

    "That is all!"
     
  2. Greektim

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    I like the sentiments from this article. The author is trying once more to make the degree distinguished and prestigious. There are so many people w/ "doctorates" right now that it means very little and the programs are not as rigorous as they once were.

    I was once gung-ho on getting a PhD, now I'm just hoping I finish my ThM (on a 2 year hiatus while out of the country). Depending on how I do w/ my thesis and if my mentor nudges me in the direction will determine if I continue or not.

    Thanks for the article.
     
  3. gb93433

    gb93433
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    The author failed to mention one of the basic requirements of a disciple--making disciples. He also failed to mention any requirement of fruit first.
     
  4. Greektim

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    Not sure that was his intended direction considering the academic nature of the PhD.
     
  5. gb93433

    gb93433
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    The point of following Christ is not just obtaining head knowledge but to do as Jesus commanded to make disciples. If one is not making disciples then that is telling about his spiritual preparation for leadership. No amount of head knowledge will cover for that.
     
  6. Rhetorician

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    OP?

    And I am not sure that it is the reason I posted the OP, but for those who wanted/considered doing a PhD?

    "That is all?" :laugh:
     
  7. Greektim

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    You confuse obtaining a PhD with leadership... you also assume that one is a follower of Jesus when studying for a PhD (in religion, theology, &/or NT/OT studies). Both would be incorrect assumptions.
     
  8. Rhetorician

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    Rhetorician Response

    Dear Brother,

    I am confused somewhat by your comments? Do you not consider teaching teachers and preachers with a PhD on the college or seminary level "making disciples?" These then go out and make other disciples?

    I am confused, it looks to me like teaching preachers is very high on the list of making disciples. It also looks to me like the church needs scholars with PhDs teaching in our churches so some of the pablum, or downright heresy, being taught can be overcome?

    Just asking?

    "That is all!"
     
  9. gb93433

    gb93433
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    Recently I read that 80% of the churches in America are dead and dying. Why? Lack of education?

    When I look at groups like The Navigators and compare that to the college age church groups there is a huge gap in terms of their devotional life and spiritual reproduction. Why?

    A doctorate is not guarantee iforeffective leadership.

    I think education can help tremendously., However, education is no substitute for doing the dirty work of being in the trenches with the sheep and bring them to the point of spiritual reproduction. If a man does not know how to make disciples then he will not know what to do to bring someone to the point of being a reproducer.

    How many seminaries teach each person to do all Jesus commanded? Doing is much more than just the work of a scholar.

    Years ago Dawson Trotman interviewed 29 prospective missionaries and only one could say that he was satisfied with his devotional life. They had gone through various theological schools and 28 could not say at any point in time that they were satisfied with their devotional life.

    Obedience is a heart attitude not just an academic exercise.

    Leaders reach and train people. The educated can include the local effective leaders, the local ineffective leaders, the scribes, and the Pharisees. Everyone of them can be well educated.

    Being proficient in statistics and being able to do research did absolutely nothing for me in making disciples.

    There are Greek and Hebrew scholars who are non-believers.

    Recently I received an email and I think the writer did a good job.

    [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] In my humble opinion, the gravitation for the church toward "educationalism" has come from two places: [FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] 1. The American School System. The Sunday School movement (which was a huge movement in the church a hundred years ago) patterned after the American school system. To a great extent, "discipleship" to this day is often thought to require a text book and a classroom. The American school system is very linear and departmentalized/compartmentalized (age graded, 101, 201, etc.). It is classic modernism from a decidedly Western viewpoint. Jesus' instruction was quite non-linear and holistic. It is from an Eastern, circular, viewpoint. The Hebrew model of education is a more "as you walk along the way" model. However, Jesus also modeled extended teaching times (Matthew 5-7) and Rabbis would often teach for long periods in the synagogue. We have an instance in Acts where a guy fell out the window because the teaching session got so long; obviously we don't want to kill people!
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana,Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] 2. The Denominational Seminary. Seminaries are mostly lead by scholars, and what scholars can best model to their students is how to study in depth and teach in depth, not how to lead, evangelize, mentor, pastor or disciple. Greek professors will pound the lectern about how important it is to know Greek, but at times, I've gotten the sense that this point of view is also about their job security. As long as everyone is convinced they need to know the original languages to be a pastor, then students will pay the big bucks for a "seminary education." Lately, however, the secret is starting to get out that this whole business is oversold, and that while the pastor needs to be a student of the Word, he does not need to be a scholar of the Word. In fact, some of the most ineffective pastors are seminary trained, and there may be a bit of cause and effect there. So I like Donald Miller's statement: "The first disciples were not teachers, they were fishermen, tax collectors and at least one was a Zealot. We don't know the occupation of the others, but Jesus did not charge educators with the great commission, he chose laborers. And those laborers took the gospel and created Christian communities that worked, that did things and met in homes and were active." [/FONT]
    [/FONT]
    [/FONT]
     
    #9 gb93433, Sep 18, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 18, 2011
  10. Bob Alkire

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    Well said. I know where I went to seminary all the professors but two were pastors of churches.
    Side note, one of the most effective pastors of getting the church members into witnessing and discipleship would teach it. Then he would show it, churches always need folks to come in and do some work. At harvest he would get out in the fields and help the farmers, he would also go to other places of work and give a helping hand and interact with the workers. He would witness to the lost and teach discipleship to the saints. Many said they learned more from seeing him out of church and in their work place doing what he preached from the pulpit. Discipleship was always on his mind and he was always teaching.
     
  11. gb93433

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    Thank God for pastors like him. We need more just like him.
     
  12. Rhetorician

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    My dear Brother gb,

    I guess (well I know) that I am an educational "snob" at some levels. And that I often rebel here on the BB at those "who don't see no need for none of that thar edumcation. What we need is more 'knee-ology' and less of that book learnin's theology" they would say. That is my confession of pride--pray for me!!

    I have edited your context down to the place, and I must ask if you actually believe that churches do not need their pastors to be a "scholar(s) of the Word"?

    I must say I do not think that all need (must) go to the seminary and get some kind of degree. Although I think they would be the better for it.

    However I must lodge a strong sentiment that all pastors should be;

    1. Scholars to the very best of their ability. They must teach the people the truths of God's word to keep away those who would steel them away with false doctrine. Most of our people could not, if they had to do so, enumerate the Gospel.

    2. Pastors should be theologians. Maybe they cannot get to the seminary, maybe they cannot use the computer, but they can read. They can study. They do not have to buy Handfuls on Purpose to "get them a sermon" on Saturday night 'causin' they are too triffling to study in a disciplined and consistent way!! AMEN? or OH! ME!

    I am proud to be a member of a church that has Pastoral Interns, and we seek to blend the seminary training with practical experience long before the young novice minister it turned loose on a congregation--or the congregation is turned loose on them; as the case may be?!

    I am done! :smilewinkgrin: "That is all!"
     
    #12 Rhetorician, Sep 20, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 20, 2011
  13. gb93433

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    Jesus dealt with the scholars too. However they lacked humility. Do not think for one minute that I am against education. But education to fill the mind only is nothing more than being a hearer only.

    Teaching is to be much more than just the conveyance of intellectual knowledge. It is also showing the people and training them how to do ministry.

    I get angry when I think of how many men I know who graduated from a seminary and then do not maintain their language skills and give their congregations nothing more than sugar water.

    Show me a man who makes disciples and I will show you a person who is growing in love with Jesus. However I have seen too many seminary graduates who are nothing more than preachers.

    Recently I read a book on discipling men and the author stated that he had approached some seminaries about teaching the prospective pastors how to make disciples. Not one of them wanted anything to do with the practical. They wanted to maintain their status quo of being a scholarly institution.

    When I was at SWBTS two of my professors stated that at one time all theology professors were pastors in churches but that stopped when the pastors outside of the seminary did not like it. So the seminaries went from the scholarly and practical to just an academic institution.

    A pastor should be prepared to give very best to God's people and that includes a steady diet of training.
     

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