Would Amnesty Cheapen American Citizenship???

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by righteousdude2, May 24, 2010.

  1. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2
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    Since billions of American's were either born here, or, stood in that very long line to become "naturalized", would you say that granting amnesty to all of those folks who broke our laws to get here is the "Cheapening of Citizenship" here in America???

    My opinion is that amnesty is making our American heritage and citizenship a cheap thing to come by and possess for those who get it by breaking laws, protest, cry foul, and are allowed to "take cuts" in line to American naturalization!

    Granted, the government may charge these folks a few dollars and call it a fine.
    Granted, they may make them apply and take an abbreviated route to citizenship.
    Granted, they may be told that they have to learn English, and assimilate. BUT, since they broke other laws and faced no consequences, what makes you think they'll take these requirements serious???

    And that does not smooth over their illegal entry and intentional efforts to hide from the law - which for some has been 30 to 40 years, or more - with those who gained citizenship via the way our laws on immigration required of them. And doesn't their hiding indicate that they know it is against our laws for them to be here? IMHO...Hiding from the INS and ICE is a form of admitting guilt.

    I can't help but understand the anger and frustration that those who did everything the "right way" will feel when they discover how easy it will be for the criminal element who are suddenly dropped into our society as naturalized American citizens by way of amnesty. Or, should I say, via: Cheating!

    No one likes those who cut in line in front of us while we stood there and waited our turn. So, what makes amnesty any different? Is it not "cheating? Is it not like "cutting into a line" in front of those who followed the laws and waited their turn?

    I believe that "amnesty" will become the road to citizenship - in the future of America - if the "line-in-the-sand" is not drawn NOW, and the laws are enforced.

    It is not a coincidence that Reagan granted amnesty for millions of Mexicans in the 80's, and 30 years later, a whole new generation is expecting America to be lenient once again.

    How many years will it be until another 20 to 30 million Mexicans will expect the same treatment for breaking our laws???

    If history is allowed to repeat itself for a second time, Americans can expect nothing better for their children, and their childrens children. Is it not bad enough that we have dropped a huge, insurmountable debt into their laps? Is it fair for generations to come, to be exactly where their grandparents were when millions crossed the border illegally, set up house, had babies, and waved the flag and patriotism of their homeland, to continue to "cheat" their way to citizenship, while our politicians "cheapen" the right to be called an American?

    Should we allow another generation of "cheater's" to get their citizenship through the wave of a presidents hand and the signing of an amnesty bill ??? Or, should we demand that illegals return to their native homelands, and that our Government officials protect this precious gift of citizenship. A gift that was bought and paid for by the blood of millions of brave Americans who fought to keep America strong, and free, from the invading armies of it's known, and unknown enemies. And believe me: Those who come across the border without permission, are invaders, not guests!

    Shalom,

    Pastor Paul :type:
     
    #1 righteousdude2, May 24, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 24, 2010
  2. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2
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    The Above Articlle is not Hate Speach... it is Simply...

    ... telling it like it is!

    I'm sure there are those who will declare that I am racist, prejudice, and filled with hate.

    That couldn't be further from the truth. I was simply looking at what it means to me to be an American, and what it meant to the millions of immigrants who came here and worked to be called an American, AND, these thoughts (above) came flowing from my heart.

    I certainly don't wish bad upon another human, but, I believe we are a law abiding nation, and if we allow the laws to be broken once again - in the name of amnesty - that we will certainly make the right to American citizenship something other than that which we can be proud of!

    I wrote the above out of reverence to this nation; it's past sacrifices by those who died to protect her; and, the love of freedom.

    Freedom does not mean "free". It represents hard work, and pride in that work and the effort behind the work to obtain the goal.

    I realize that there are many illegals in America that are from other nations, but, the truth is, the greater majority are from Mexico. There is no hate within my heart for any nationality living and working in this country.

    I just seek fairness across the board for all Americans, and if we can't exhibit fairness, than what is left???

    In Jesus,

    Pastor Paul :praying:
     
  3. pinoybaptist

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    Danged right I don't like anyone cutting in line in front of me. 'swhy I have always and I mean, always, gone "right" in issues like these.

    But here's what I find.
    It's like being on a highway and you've come to your exit which is a busy one and you see that sign that says "begin to exit here" so you begin to exit there and it's about a half-mile more to the actual exit.

    I put about a half-foot between my front bumper and the rear of the car in front of me to discourage arrogant, inconsiderate motorists who know they're supposed to fall in line yet go right ahead all the way to the front and "cut" in line over there.

    What I notice is that those arrogant idiots have their way, and know they will have their way, because somewhere up the line somebody who had been sitting fifteen minutes in line to get to the exit does not guard his space and leaves a gap between him and the car in front wide enough for someone travelling 35 miles an hour to squeeze through and have enough distance to brake close to the front car.

    There's a parallel there somewhere, don't you think ?
     
  4. Martin

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    ==I don't know. We are at a point where some form of amnesty may be unavoidable. Does it reward those who broke the law? Probably, but our government has been so neglectful for so long that I'm afaid the problem is beyond repair. At this point they need to do two things: (1) close the southern border (fence, patrols, etc), (2) crack down on employers who knowingly hire illegals. That might take away the appeal of coming to America. But, then again, who would work in the blueberry fields? Around here those fields are worked by Mexicans who, I imagine, are all illegal. I'm not sure anyone else would do the work.


    ==O, I think the hand writing is on the wall. Amnesty is unavoidable at this point. It's too late for the government to go back and try to do what it should have been doing for many years.

    ==If we close the borders and crack down on employers that might take away the appeal of coming to America.



    ==Most of the ones that are here are not going anywhere and I would not support the government engaging in a forced deportation of millions of people. All we can do now is try to stop things where we are.

    I was buying a pair of shoes the other day and the guy in front of me was Mexican. Maybe he was 21-25 years old, maybe. Anyway the lady asked him how often he visited his family in Mexico, he said never. She asked him when the last time he saw his mother, he said five years. She asked him when he was going to see her again, he said never. She never asked him why, but I think we know why. He is here illegally and cannot risk crossing the border again.
     
  5. Thinkingstuff

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    If mexicans really want to be citizens of this country what they need to do is make a treaty with us saying they will share the land. Then ignore the treaty attack american citizens at night and kill us indiscriminately as they take more and more land. Then place us in desert areas to live. Then they will be real citizens.
     
  6. sag38

    sag38
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    Yeah, the bad bad white men need to pay for the sins of their fathers.
     
  7. targus

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    Do you know the history of Mexico?

    The Spaniards pretty much killed off the local population and took over the land that is now Mexico.
     
  8. Thinkingstuff

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    No. I did't say anything about white man or black man. I just showed what it takes to be a proper citizen. You brought up race. Its seems to me its primarily on your mind. I think you should get beyond race and just look at things as they are.
     
  9. Thinkingstuff

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    Oh they did a lot more than that. In fact the body count was horrendous. Did you know that Mexico in 3 administrations attempted to wipe out Catholicism from Mexico? Many people were killed and shrines were blown up. Some were close to communist purposes, But we're not talking about the history of Mexico. We're talking about being proper US citizens.
     
  10. targus

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    So a proper citizen kills people to take their land?

    Really?
     
  11. Thinkingstuff

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    That's what How the United States obtained land from the natives. That what the great plains war was all about. Ever hear about General Custer? How about President Grant?
     
  12. sag38

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    We should just let illegals have their way here because in our past we did some wrong things. That's the logic of a bed wetter.
     
  13. Thinkingstuff

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    Of course your christian God fearing sympathies are such that you insult a person by calling them a bed wetter. Man you are a great example of Christ! How do you witness? Is it something like this? "Now you bedwetters read John 3:16" And Accept Jesus as your personal lord and savior."?


    If fact your logic is off. Did I say let the illegals have their way? No I never ever said that. I said they should act like the European immigrants by following these estabished steps first performed by the United States of America. 1) Make a treaty like the treaty of 1851 which gave certain land to peoples already living there. Then say you wouldn't go on their land only to do exaclty that in 1856 then 2) Go and kill people indiscriminately like in 1857 and again in 1865 and 1868 pushing the people back into a little area no one could readily live on. Then 3) Just wipe people out and stick em in a desert like in 1890. Ensure to kill a few more. This is the established way of getting land by the US government and its policies and making your immegrants citizens of the land you occupy. Where in any of that is just let them do what ever? There is established policy that they should follow!!!!!
     
  14. thegospelgeek

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    politics forum here we come
     
  15. righteousdude2

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    Been There Done That...

    ... these freeway line cutters make our wait to exit, and even enter, a lot longer than it should be, because there are a ton of rude people waiting until the last minute to get in the front of the line. And to h#$& with those who've been waiting for five signal light cycles to get their turn to turn, exit the freeway, etc.

    Darn right, there is a parallel there, and you hit the nail on the head. THANKS!:thumbs:
     
  16. righteousdude2

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    Liked That One!

    We should just let illegals have their way here because in our past we did some wrong things. That's the logic of a bed wetter. :laugh:

    Very good come back Sag38
     
  17. righteousdude2

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    It's Here, You Found It, So What's the Problem???

    You found this post, and many others have. The moral choice to support amnesty, or, to send them all back is not always a political issue. It is a moral issue, and this topic should be being discussed in this General Baptist Forum.

    I believe that the morality of granting amnesty, and what it will mean to the "watering-down" of citizenship her in America is not political, but moral and based upon what the Bible and our inner spirit tells us to do, and while I appreciate your view, since you found it here, why not toss your hat in the ring and be a contributor to this post???
     
  18. sag38

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    Liberals love bringing up what happened in the past as a basis for the way we should act today even though most of us have never mistreated a Native American nor owned a slave. They want us to apologize over and over again to folks who's ancestors were mistreated but who themselves live in a land of unprecedented opportunity and freedom. They have not been mistreated nor have they been enslaved. However, they are exploited by race baiters and enslaved to a dependence on big government. TStuff, I'm not witnessing to you so you can dispense with the attack on my Christian character. I really don't care what you think about me. I don't answer to you. But, just to relieve your fears, I did not call you a bed wetter. I simply suggested that you are using the logic of guilt that keeps many liberals wetting their pants in the middle of the night from worrying about the plight of the poor Indians from over a hundred years ago and how the big bad white man treated them. It's time for some to grow up, move away from a victim mentality, and live in the here and now.
     
  19. righteousdude2

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    Sag38 Is Correct...

    ... I honestly believe that Americans have learned from the days of slavery; Indian war horrors and atrocities; the Japanese intern camps, etc.

    I, for one, am sick and tired of having the past sins of this nation thrown into the arguments for present, more pressing issues. I look around me and see that blacks were emancipated; the Indians atrocities have been put behind us; the intern camps of WWII are now ghost towns, falling apart from aged wood, and blowing winds and sand.

    America has come a long way in making this melting pot of racial cultures and social differences a good and fair place to live in. Are we PERFECT... not by any means, but, we are pushing forward, and progress is coming.

    To continue to bring up negative history and try to fit it into the jaded cracks of current tensions over new problems facing Americans, is just not fair.

    Most nations fail to learn from their mistakes. And they fall! America is a nation of many colors, speaking one tongue, and that is what makes her great. The past must be left only to learn from. Stop digging up the skeletons... let sleeping dogs lay... we are taking lessons learned, and applying them to current problems.

    In fact, that is what may be wrong with America today. Maybe guilt is freezing her leaders and people from doing the hard thing in regard to illegal immigration? Maybe America is allowing past ghosts to dictate how to handle the illegal problem.

    The problem with this is... there are no similarities between our past sins and those people who have broken our laws and want leniency.

    These folks are good at using guilt trips to hold us back from doing what is right and lawful: Sending them back and making them start over. I don't believe it would be that hard to send violators back to Mexico. Once the word is out on the streets, most illegals will head for the border to avoid being arrested and separated from their families.

    In fact, a presidential order allowing all illegals 60, 90, 120 days to pack up and return to their country, and giving them some financial assistance to move (think about it, it would be less than picking up the costs of making them Americans and paying all the bills and entitlements that come with amnesty) would be the way to go.

    It may be a long and difficult process, but, it is the only way to go. If we allow another round of amnesty to come out of this, there will be more of the same a few decades from now. Once a group of people know the combination of the safe, they will rob it until it's combination is changed, or, the safe is empty. And an empty safe will mean a broken America. There will be no more incentives to come here because the land of milk and honey is being picked dry.
     
  20. Salty

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    As long as there is a broken line, they have every right to change lanes (until it is a solid white line), therefore, they are NOT cutting in line
    And if I am the one that you are one foot behind to prevent someone to "cut over" I have no choice but to slow down as I practice "Y-WAS*" and when that happens several cars will change lanes in front of me for the exit. I do not tolerate illegal tailgating!

    I'm sure there is an analogy in here, and when I get it, I will pass it along

    Salty

    * Y-WAS = Yielding While Anticipating Stupidity
     

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