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Would Amnesty Cheapen American Citizenship???

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by righteousdude2, May 24, 2010.

  1. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

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    Worked for Great, great granddaddy when he wanted some land here. :laugh:
    Of course the Indians didn't like the illegal immigrants that were taking their land either...

    OH well, what goes around comes around.
     
  2. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    This is like bringing up slavery. Useless. No one is alive who had anything to do with Indians. And much of that history is incorrect.
     
  3. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    By implication some of us then have mistreated a native american and owned a slave. But I thought we were way passed that?

    First I'm not a liberal but conservative. However, being a Christian has tempered my conservative values not leading me down the path to facism. But I was making a humorous point that 1) amnesty cannot not "waterdown our citizenship especially when you consider the history of this country. and that 2) When you come to the realization that the American Citizenship we defend so dramatically protect is looked at critically amnesty is certainly not going to do any less for it. Keep in mind most immigrants to this country before the 1900 didn't have "papers" or proper visa. Just a desire for a better life. Its the reason the statue of liberty says
    Giving amnesty is no different. I'm against amnesty for entirely different reasons. The first being what it will do to the economy. However, to suppose that amnesty somehow belittles US citizenship anymore than how any other immigrant came to the United States is ludicrous.

    OH and you may not be witnessing to me but how do you witness to illegal immigrants? Like this "You dirty brown person leave my country and read john 3:16 while you and your family starve to death"? If so where does your christian faith lead you in comparison to your nationalism?
     
    #23 Thinkingstuff, May 25, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 25, 2010
  4. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    Its always easier to have your past sins ignored when your people where the aggressors but when your people were the victims what then? What when its your people that have had education with held from them until your father? What when your people were forced to live in ghettos where advancement was not a luxury anyone could afford. What when your people have succumb to second class citizenship status based on their race? What then? Its easy to have people forget when you don't have to deal with the consequences.
     
  5. sag38

    sag38 Active Member

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    Thinkingstuff I never called anyone a dirty brown person. It is you used those words. Do you have a problem with dirty brown people? I have a red neck tan to kill for. So, you might not like me especially after I've cut the lawn.

    Its always easier to have your past sins ignored when your people where the aggressors but when your people were the victims what then? What when its your people that have had education with held from them until your father? What when your people were forced to live in ghettos where advancement was not a luxury anyone could afford. What when your people have succumb to second class citizenship status based on their race? What then? Its easy to have people forget when you don't have to deal with the consequences.

    A classic example of white guilt syndrome.
     
  6. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    What is left? Well, there is Harry, Barack, Nancy, the Democrat establishment, the Republican establishment, and news media, and the rich and famous.

    It is quite simple. Our laws define quite clearly how to become a citizen. They are fair and generous. As an American, try becoming a citizen of another country, even an impoverished one. Has anyone ever looked up the requirements on the internet? You would be shocked, and not only that, you would not qualify.

    Now, it amazes me that we have all these governmental functions not in the Constitution, such as providing those in their 20s and 30s loratabs and xanax at government expense when they will not work, yet will not protect our borders. I do not care what the numbers are, what it takes, but it is time to keep our citizens here, and ship the others back. At the same time, lets really control our borders. Stop all the insane spending and use the money for Constitutional reasons. That means control the borders. That means citizens belong here. It would be one thing if the illegals here were temporary workers, but it has gone way beyond that, to taxpayer money used for their upkeep.

    The last time I checked, Scirpture said obey the laws of the land. Sorry to interupt, now all you Democrat and Republican apologists can continue your debate and pointing fingers.
     
  7. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

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    Scripture also says,

    Lev 19:33 When a foreigner resides with you in your land, you must not oppress him.
    Lev 19:34 The foreigner who resides with you must be to you like a native citizen among you; so you must love him as yourself, because you were foreigners in the land of Egypt. I am the LORD your God. (NET)

    Notice God doesn't say.. .you must do this IF and ONLY if they have proper documents....
     
  8. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    I'm a dirty brown person well today I did showere but you know how it gets after a while especially on humid days

    And if it makes it easier to take a truth and name it for your conscience then fine. It makes it no less true. Try being the victim of social injustice sometime and then tell me how you feel.
     
  9. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    Thinkingstuff, do you believe that those of us who support Arizona's law, or those who think illegal immigration is a problem--are racist?

    Sure sounds that way.

    As I've said--your posts are getting more and more extreme. Now, it seems, the "racist" moniker is getting easier and easier to throw out there.
     
  10. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist Active Member
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    Yes, they are.
    You see, Salty, the issue here is not whether there is a broken line and they have therefore the right to be rude and inconsiderate of those who patiently waited their turn and began their exit where the sign says "begin to exit here".
    It is a question of orderliness and being considerate, not of "I can do this because the broken line says I have the right to do this".

    The parallel is that these illegal immigrants come into this country ignoring the "begin to exit here" signs which many order minded immigrants, such as your ancestors, and such as my wife and I, obeyed, simply because some of those who do have the patience to wait in line do not practice the vigilance necessary to not be rudely treated by others who disregard rules and just plain civility.
    As a result, amnesty gives them the right to thumb their noses at those who patienly waited in line to get into the freeway or to exit from the freeway and get home or to work, just because they see a broken line and the heck with those a quarter of a mile down the road who were dumb enough to exit where the sign said to begin to exit.

    That sign can be ignored IF when one gets to the exit, there is no queue, but if there is a queue already, then invoking the right of way simply because there is a broken line is nothing more than being a bully or outright illiterate.
     
  11. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    I cannot argue with those verses, except to say, those verses are how I would treat illegal aliens as an individual. That is a different aspect than the government enforcing its own laws. On top of that, I do not think the government is oppressing anyone by enforcing its own laws. As I said above, compare our laws to become a citizen with any other nation on earth. We have one of the most generous entry policies on earth.
     
  12. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    Did I ever say you were a racist? Never. I said you should suffer a social injustice then you can comment on how you feel about it. And During WWII how many of you still feel it was ok to put American Japanese in Consentration Camps?
     
  13. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2 Well-Known Member
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    Tim, You Are Bending Scripture, AGAIN!

    This is simply bending God's Word to fit a situation that you disagree with.

    That word was for a specific people (the Children of Israel), and their government.

    It in now way was meant to be applied to any other government, unless that government is Israel.

    America is not Israel. It is not God's chosen people.

    Finally, I believe that this particular Scripture is being applied in America. This country does welcome, with open arms, those who come here legally. This country, does, provide the legal immigrant the wealth and resources of this nation once they are naturalized.

    We are still addressing people who are invading our nations sovereignty. What does the Bible tell us to do with invaders, lawbreakers, thief's???

    I think you know the answer. And it is probably much more harsh than deportation. :wavey:

    Pastor Paul
     
  14. sag38

    sag38 Active Member

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    I said you should suffer a social injustice then you can comment on how you feel about it. And During WWII how many of you still feel it was ok to put American Japanese in Consentration Camps?/B]

    TS, why are you feeling so guilty? Did you order the Japaneses into the internment camps? Did you oppress someone in the ghetto? Did you chase escaped slaves? Have you oppressed a minority lately? Or are you a minority who has bought into the victim mentality who see's a racist behind every tree where no one can say a thing or enforce a law without your "That's Racist" radar going off?
     
  15. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    You know the Nazi's used the same argument against the Jews and Bonhoffer. Hitler's tactic in 1936 was to provide humorous criticism aimed at those he wished to persecute. Funny how its now incorporated against those who would like to shine the light a little bit on attitudes and societal direction.
     
  16. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    So you would ignore the principles presented by the Law?
     
  17. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

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    I am just playing your games, you choose to use OT scriptures written to Israel and apply them to America when you want to...

    Does this sound familiar...

    "If my people who are called by my name.... "

    We Americans use this ALL the time to say that if We as a country come back to God, God will heal our land...

    Can't have it both ways...
    If 2 Chronicles applies to America...
    So does Leviticus 19:34.

    I guess right now I am very happy to be in the ABC/USA... our convention unlike the SBC is taking a stand against prejudice and social injustice in America....

    Read this letter from our General Secretary... http://www.abc-usa.org/WhoWeAre/Missions/ImmigrationLetter/tabid/484/Default.aspx

    YOu may find that even one of our own Baptistboard-ites got the chance to sign it...
     
  18. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    I went to an ABC university for graduate work and I have to say in situations like these I tend to agree with them
     
  19. sag38

    sag38 Active Member

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    You know the Nazi's used the same argument against the Jews and Bonhoffer. Hitler's tactic in 1936 was to provide humorous criticism aimed at those he wished to persecute. Funny how its now incorporated against those who would like to shine the light a little bit on attitudes and societal direction.

    So it comes down to calling people Nazi's. I love you and I forgive you but when you start hitting below the belt I'm stepping away. Have fun.
     
  20. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    I'm not sure which is worse. Saying someone uses the logic of a bedwetter or some one uses the propaganda tactics of the Nazis? What say you?
     
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