Would KJVO's even trust a new TR translation?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Emily, Jan 19, 2004.

  1. Emily

    Emily
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2003
    Messages:
    247
    Likes Received:
    0
    Recently, while talking with the KJVO Baptist Pastor of the church that I was thinking about joining, we got on the discussion of KJVO-ism..

    I had mentioned that I didnt buy into this particular belief, but that I would still go to his church and just chew on the meat and spit out the bone so to speak..

    We went lightheartedly back and forth for a minute and he said this..

    "Just think about it Emily.. For 400 YEARS.. there was nothing other than the KJV.. and now all of a sudden, everyone wants to update the english, but while they are busy updating english, they are also updating their opinions and things are getting out of hand."

    He went on to say that "I am not a Ruckmanist by any standard".. He also said.."I believe that it could be possible for someone to go to the Textus Receptus and update the language, and only the language, but thus far, nobody has done it"..


    but by question is.. would anybody even trust it? Would any KJV-onlyist even give it a fair chance?


    I can sympathize with the KJVO position a little bit.. I think that if I was always taught that MV's were evil, I would tend to stray away from them as well..

    I was looking on christianitytoday.com's website and they had a bunch of links, and one of them was about reading the bible in 1 year.. I clicked on it, and they were very proud of offering it in a very easy to understand bible, but it wasnt one that I had ever heard of, so I treated it like the plague.. I myself prefer the NASB, but I guess I can feel the fear of the KJV-onlyists.. I just dont agree with them..
     
  2. Jesus is Lord

    Jesus is Lord
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2002
    Messages:
    260
    Likes Received:
    0
    There is a version like that. It is called King James 2000 (it is not the KJ21 or NKJV oder Modern King James Version).

    The King James 2000 only changes archaic verb endings, personal pronouns (worketh to works; thee to you etc.).

    I like this version!
     
  3. Emily

    Emily
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2003
    Messages:
    247
    Likes Received:
    0
    Jesus is Lord

    do you think it will catch on?
     
  4. Jesus is Lord

    Jesus is Lord
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2002
    Messages:
    260
    Likes Received:
    0
    It is called a "modern King James" and not a "modernized King James"... it is very cheap... but also very unknown...

    I don´t think it´ll become very popular. The King James readers love their King James and those who want a "like the KJV"-Bible will use the popular NKJV...
     
  5. LRL71

    LRL71
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2002
    Messages:
    580
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ahem.... The NKJV (New King James Version) also uses the same Hebrew/Greek texts that the original 1611 used. The NKJV came out about 25 years ago, and has already been pilloried by some KJV-onlyists. This is a really good translation, and would recommend it.
     
  6. Pastor KevinR

    Pastor KevinR
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2001
    Messages:
    741
    Likes Received:
    0
    The NKJV is my personal favorite MV. However, it isn't based upon the TR, but the Majority Text, which the TR itself is based upon. I've read some of it's critics, and it boils down to, "if it ain't the KJV, it ain't for me".
     
  7. Precepts

    Precepts
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2003
    Messages:
    1,890
    Likes Received:
    0
    Would you also recommend:Job 24:22 "But God draws the mighty away with His power; He rises up, but no man is sure of life.NKJV
    as "God" being the one who appears in the context as in verse 1 ¶ Why, seeing times are not hidden from the Almighty, do they that know him not see his days?


    Do you really think the LORD draws anyone to Himself and then leaves him not being sure of life?

    Now compare to the KJ Bible: verse 22 He draweth also the mighty with his power: he riseth up, and no man is sure of life.

    This "He" is not God, it is the same "evil men" that perform all the previous and the following actions in the passage.

    The mistake in the MV's is to attribute the action to God, IN ERROR.

    I pointed this out to the young man in the Young Married SS class after he read the passage from his NKJV, he saw there was a distinct discrepency and would report back with his findings. He never reported back.

    Of course the arguement will go, "Butt, the KJB translators added their own interpetation to the passage..."

    Examine for yourself, I cannot for the life of me figure out why such intelligent people jump from the main subject of a passage and insert something totally contradictory to the context. That is the "proof in the pudding"/ context.

    Think the NKJV is a good translation? NOT!
     
  8. Pastor KevinR

    Pastor KevinR
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2001
    Messages:
    741
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi QS,
    I looked up Job 24:22 and noticed that the translators put in italics, "God" meaning of course that in the context of the passage in view, they thought "God" was accurate. In v23b, who is the verse referring to when it says, "Yet His eyes are on their ways" (NKJV) and the KJV, "Yet his eyes are upon their ways" this would seem to point out that God is the only one who can see all of anyones ways. The context seems to support the NKJV rendering as God drawing the mighty in judgment, "no man is sure of his life", i.e. even the strong has no chance when God judges. No, I won't be dogmatic about this, as your view may be right, I don't know. However if the KJV seems to say one thing and the NKJV another, I won't assume the KJV is right but dig deeper. (nor will I assume the NKJV is right!). Sometimes my favorite version, while seeking to update, may actually weaken the translation, this is just simple human truth ;)
    God bless!
     
  9. Forever settled in heaven

    Forever settled in heaven
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2000
    Messages:
    1,770
    Likes Received:
    0
    the problem w the KJ2000 is that, by KJBO reasoning, it subverts "jot n tittle" n verbal inspiration.

    changing worketh to works n thee to u is also done by the New King James. but look at the gauntlet it's been made to run! ;)
     
  10. Precepts

    Precepts
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2003
    Messages:
    1,890
    Likes Received:
    0
    KevinR, the entire context of Job 24 is dealing with the wicked and evil men and their antics, that is why we are sure it is not God in verse 22.

    Not only did we notice it but after legitimate research into realiable sources we found this,I borrow this from John Gill's Expositor:
    Ver. 22. He draweth also the mighty with his power, &c.] Such a wicked man not only maltreats the weak, the helpless, and the defenceless, but even attacks the mighty and powerful; such as are in great power and authority, and abound in wealth and riches, only somewhat inferior in both to himself: wherefore, by his superior force, he draws them to be of his party, to join with him in acts of rapine and violence, oppression and cruelty; or he draws them by power or policy, or by both, as the wicked man does the poor with his net, #Ps 10:9; and so makes a prey of him and his substance. Some understand this of the punishment of wicked men, and interpret it, as Jarchi does, of God’s drawing him to punishment; God sometimes does indeed draw and hurl the mighty from their seats; though they are set in high, yet in slippery places, and are brought down to destruction in a moment; and he will draw them all to his judgment seat hereafter, whether they will or not, and send them into everlasting punishment; but the former sense is best:

    he riseth up, and no [man] is sure of life; he rises up in the morning:, either from his bed, or from his lurking place, where he was all night with a murdering intention, and no man he meets with is safe, but in the utmost danger of his life, #Job 24:14; or, he rises in the world to great power and dignity, and increases in wealth and riches, which he abuses to the hurt of others; so that they flee from him and hide themselves, not caring to trust their life with him, #Pr 28:28; or he riseth up against a man in an hostile way, and against whomsoever he does, they are in the utmost jeopardy, and cannot be secure of their lives; though this also is by some interpreted as the punishment of a wicked man, who, when he rises in the morning, "trusteth not his own life" {f}, as the words may be rendered, and as they are in the margin of our Bibles; but his life is in suspense, being surrounded with a thousand dangers, and has no assurance of it, and is in continual fear, and often fears where no fear is; see #De 28:66; or, if a man rises up against him, the wicked tyrant and cruel oppressor, he the tyrant is not sure of his life but may be slain by him that rises up against him; but the former sense is best.

    {f} wyyxb Nymay "non fidit suae vitae", Tigurine version, Piscator; so V. L.

    If you follow the thought from verse 22 and then to verse 23, you find that the wicked is observing the ways of the mighty, looking for ways to ensnare him, to pillage the mighty's riches and steal his worth.

    Also, "Though it be given to him to be in safety", (God has given space for repentence), the wicked man continues in sin and fails the grace of God. This is evident to his presumptuous ways in the watching of the mighty looking for opportunity to strike.

    We can compare Genesis 6:3 and Luke 17:26,27, in that the "rest" the wicked has he is deceived by his illgain.

    Also we can relate Ecclesiastes 8:9 ¶ All this have I seen, and applied my heart unto every work that is done under the sun: there is a time wherein one man ruleth over another to his own hurt.
    10 And so I saw the wicked buried, who had come and gone from the place of the holy, and they were forgotten in the city where they had so done: this is also vanity.
    11 Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil.
    12 Though a sinner do evil an hundred times, and his days be prolonged, yet surely I know that it shall be well with them that fear God, which fear before him:
    13 But it shall not be well with the wicked, neither shall he prolong his days, which are as a shadow; because he feareth not before God.
     
  11. GrannyGumbo

    GrannyGumbo
    Expand Collapse
    <img src ="/Granny.gif">

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2002
    Messages:
    11,414
    Likes Received:
    0
    As I seem to fit the description of KJBO, I would most definitely NOT trust anything else!

    "Trust nothing that has not proved itself worthy of it!"
     
  12. tinytim

    tinytim
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/tim2.jpg>

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Messages:
    11,250
    Likes Received:
    0
    What about the millions of Christians that use the NIV. What about all the great churches that use other versions. I'm glad the KJV proved worthy to you. It has proven worthy to me also, as I use it 90% of the time. But don't discount the other versions just because you are not familiar with them. Just use one for a while and let it prove worthy to you too.
     
  13. Ephesus23

    Ephesus23
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2003
    Messages:
    55
    Likes Received:
    0
    I won't use any version but the plain ol' King James. I'm one of the so-called 'stubborn' KJVOs. And I'm not apologizing for that.
     
  14. Precepts

    Precepts
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2003
    Messages:
    1,890
    Likes Received:
    0
    Would we be presumptuous to think that other 10% is why you are wtrong 90% of the time? :eek: [​IMG] :D
     
  15. GrannyGumbo

    GrannyGumbo
    Expand Collapse
    <img src ="/Granny.gif">

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2002
    Messages:
    11,414
    Likes Received:
    0
    Just use one for a while and let it prove worthy to you too.


    "Get thee behind me, satan!" :eek: :D
     
  16. tinytim

    tinytim
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/tim2.jpg>

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Messages:
    11,250
    Likes Received:
    0
    Would we be presumptuous to think that other 10% is why you are wtrong 90% of the time? :eek: [​IMG] :D </font>[/QUOTE]Ah come on, quit flattering me, My wife says I'm wrong 100% of the time [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  17. tinytim

    tinytim
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/tim2.jpg>

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Messages:
    11,250
    Likes Received:
    0
    GG, don't take this personal, because from what I've read so far you are not KJVO but KJV preferred. That I respect. [snipped]

    [The KJVO movement] . .
    1.) It divides the body of Christ.
    2.) The KJVO is built on lies
    3.) Have you ever read a KJVO website, there is so much hatred toward any brother or sister that uses another version.
    Just my Opinion.

    BTW why the capital X in diXie? Just curious.

    [ January 20, 2004, 11:48 AM: Message edited by: Dr. Bob Griffin ]
     
  18. Precepts

    Precepts
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2003
    Messages:
    1,890
    Likes Received:
    0
    Would we be presumptuous to think that other 10% is why you are wtrong 90% of the time? :eek: [​IMG] :D </font>[/QUOTE]Ah come on, quit flattering me, My wife says I'm wrong 100% of the time [​IMG] [​IMG] </font>[/QUOTE]Your wife obviously is a very intelligent lady, she knows you better than we could, that would allow the 10% margin of error. :eek: [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  19. GrannyGumbo

    GrannyGumbo
    Expand Collapse
    <img src ="/Granny.gif">

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2002
    Messages:
    11,414
    Likes Received:
    0
    BTW why the capital X in diXie? Just curious.


    Well, it's not a symbol of hate...but the South was Right! ;)

    Deo Vindice! [​IMG] DIXIE FOREVER!
     
  20. Precepts

    Precepts
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2003
    Messages:
    1,890
    Likes Received:
    0
    "PREACH!" Sister! please notice the "" around preach, but that's good preaching anyway!

    The South only tried to defend our freedom, not slavery!

    Just a note for you racists, many in the South released their slaves PRIOR to the war and many of the slaves refused to leave as well.
     

Share This Page

Loading...