Would most people consider IFB churches anti-government and anti-modern medicine?

Discussion in 'Fundamental Baptist Forum' started by Living4God21, Sep 11, 2010.

  1. Living4God21

    Living4God21
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    I am curious of hearing whether or not any of you have discovered or attended an IFB church that is anti-government control and anti-pharmakia (prescription drug use, except for ER circumstances) sort of in the way that 7th day Adventists and Mormons strive to oppose these concepts??? What would you think of a church that identifies prescription drug use with "pharmakeia" the Greek word for sorcery and witchcraft? This is after all where we get our word "pharmacy." Would you oppose such a view? Do you think that a conviction for such a view is worthy to divide the body of Christ? After all, the priests were considered healers in the Old Testament, today it appears that many evolutionary atheistic thinking medical doctors have taken the place of the Old Testament priest in regards to the Church Age.
     
  2. Tom Bryant

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    I've never met any IFB churches who are against modern meds. There have been a few that I have known of that might be thot of as anti-government, but many of those are momre anti-gov't than they are IFB.

    I am for modern medicines. Just because the greek word is transliterated as pharmacy doesn't mean that medicinal drug use is witchcraft.

    Maybe putting this together with your other thread about not being able to get a church to give you experience makes more sense now. :confused:
     
  3. Living4God21

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    Thanks for the kind words Tom, I was a former medical student and I am also a current natural med student so I have a pretty thorough background regarding the effects of modern medicine. I simply wanted to see what others thought, to get a feel for the modern Christian culture. It's views like yours that verify my strong convictions against it, but you just as anyone is entitled to their opinion and I respect that. Thanks for the grace and kindness friend!
     
  4. Winman

    Winman
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    Some drugs are necessary. A diabetic must use insulin, that is not abuse. On the other hand, you have folks popping painkillers to get high, that is abuse.

    Medicine, if applied properly is a very good thing, Jesus referred to himself as a physician. But taking a pill for every minor ache and pain is abuse.

    I do think medicine is over prescribed today, they have a pill for everything, and oftentimes the side effects are far worse than the ailment it is intended to treat.
     
  5. Jim1999

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    Wasn't Luke commonly referred to as a physician? I don't think Jesus' common use of divine healing negated "medicine" per se.

    Winman has correctly stated the case. Diabetics and certain other ailments require essential drugs. Among other drugs, I take a daily aspirin to help put off the possibility of another stroke. My only drugs are prescribed and monitored monthly by a physician.

    I never heard of a church banning the use of prescribed medicines.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  6. abcgrad94

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    I have not heard of an IFB church described as such. This type of "church" sounds more like a cult, not a real church. Nowhere in the Bible do we read where the Lord had any other agenda but doing his Father's will. What you've described is a group with a political and social agenda, not a scriptural one.

    As an IFB, I get irritated that so many nut cases out there claim the IFB "name" when in reality, it's just a cover up for cultish, ungodly behavior and a soapbox to spread political/social propaganda.
     
  7. annsni

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    I've heard of IFB churches being very anti-government (look at our own member of the "banned" Steve Anderson and his church - he's VERY anti-government) but I've never heard of one that was anti medications. I'm glad we don't believe in that because my husband would be dead right now if it wasn't for his asthma drugs. Yes, he could be healed but he hasn't been for God's own reasoning so his "thorn in the side" is his three-fold "blessing" of asthma, eczema and allergies. Oh - we can add in another vowel word too - arthritis. Yes, in his case, it's "better living through drugs". :laugh:
     
  8. Tom Bryant

    Tom Bryant
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    I am glad I could be of assistance to you. :sleeping_2:
     
  9. Living4God21

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    I would just encourage any one who believes in the doctrine of Biblical separation which applies to things such as entertainment, dress, fellowship, etc. to digest this thought. Why does this doctrine apply to these spiritual factors but not to our bodies (the temple of the Holy Spirit) as well in what we use to treat and cure disease? Drugs are made by man and always come with side effects, some minor and others very serious. Medicine is a business like any other business, it must have repeat customers to survive and thrive. Why, I ask is our health and physical body exempt from this doctrine? The same churches that declare and proclaim by preaching modest dress and behavior would never think twice about preaching against the use of harmful prescription drugs. Why is this? Have they been conditioned to believe the use of prescription drugs is acceptable and safe? The answer to this is most definitely, YES! So on one hand they say God commands us to only place pure things before our eyes and watch no evil thing, but yet on the other hand they claim prescription drugs (which are often toxic man made chemical substances) are perfectly acceptable and permissible to consume within our bodies. Should we not first search out a natural method of care that was created by God in nature rather than a synthetic chemical created by "BIG PHARMA" designed to bring in BIG BUSINESS? I understand disease exists, this is a result of sin and it will be here until Christ returns, but there is more than one way to treat and cure disease, by the way drugs do not cure disease (this is why they call it "treatment" drugs only mask the symptoms of disease). By the way, where do we draw the line for prescription drug use? Should we allow Christians to rely on anti-depressants when they are down rather than seeking God in prayer? How about birth control? Is there truly a pill for every ill? Just because something is labeled as "prescription" and legal by law does not mean that it is safe for the temple of God. For example, just because same-sex marriage may be legal in some states eyes, does not mean God honors it. Finally, Yes, the Bible does speak of Christ as the Great Physician and Luke was also a physician, we must be careful not to confuse Biblical Medicine and Biblical Physicians with modern day medicine and physicians. They are not equivalent nor the same. If you study the history of medicine you will learn that Biblical medicine was based off of the use of herbs and not magic synthetic potions. Also I have been to medical school and I have seen what they teach students first hand, ever since then I have been awoken! I am not against all forms of medicine such as emergency room medicine and that needed for chronic life threatening disease, but I am against harmful prescriptions that damage the temple of God when there are natural alternative cures with no side effects that do exist. Hippocrates who is known as the father of modern medicine used natural cures himself and is famous for his Hippocratic Oath which includes the promise "to abstain from doing harm." Well, this is not the case today as I have seen many people die from kidney and liver failure due to prescription drugs which list such side effects on the label. As Christians I think that we ought to be more cautious when it comes to modern day medication and we should not so easily and passively accept all of its claims.

    Mat 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.


    Eze 47:12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.
     
  10. Jim1999

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    So, since I am a sinner for coming down with diabetis, and all I need do is ask God to cure me of that sin................duh!

    Just what is the "natural" cure for diabetis?

    Do you think that so-called herbal remedies haven't killed people and given false hopes?

    How do you handle surgical emergencies?

    Are you saying you want to enter ministry? I would frankly say forget it.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  11. Living4God21

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    Jim,

    I clearly stated above, "I am not against all forms of medicine such as emergency room medicine and that needed for chronic life threatening disease, but I am against harmful prescriptions that damage the temple of God when there are natural alternative cures with no side effects that do exist."

    Diabetes would be a chronic disease.

    Thankfully I am not alone in my view of medicine as many other Christians are also awakening to the realities of a sick-care system rather than a health care system.

    As far as ministry service this is for God to decide but I respect your view and accept that you oppose it.

    p.s. many people have successfully cured their diabetes with natural medicine without any harm, just google it and I am sure you will find many reliable cases that verify this, my grandmothers sister is one example.
     
  12. abcgrad94

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    Living, I am concerned that you would make medicine a dividing issue of "separation." It is not ungodly to use medication, nor did Christ speak against such in scripture. Even when he healed the sick, it is NEVER recorded that he spoke against medicine or doctors or the use of them. I find that many IFB's want to force their personal "standards" on other people and expect people to agree with them on every single little tiny issue in order to fellowship with them. I hope you are not doing this, because you will be very lonely indeed.

    You say you want to be a preacher. Preach Christ and him crucified. Preach salvation to the lost. Preach what "thus saith the Lord." I have read the entire KJV Bible and still have not seen where Christ held a political or social agenda about government or medicine. If it wasn't part of his message, why should it be part of any believers?

    Your opinion about separation is just that--an opinion. Guess what? We've all got one! Big deal. If we're busy encouraging the saints, winning the lost, and doing what God wants us to do, we will have very little time to condemn others who don't see eye to eye with us on the unimportant issues.
     
  13. annsni

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    Are some medicines misused? Absolutely. But without medicines, we would not live nearly as long as we do - and therefore would not be able to serve the Lord as long nor would people have more time to hear the Gospel and possibly be saved.

    In my family, both my husband and I would most likely be dead without medications. I certainly would not have 4 living children and 2 children miscarried without medications. A friend of mine is in the hospital right now after having ruptured his appendix and he's now been fighting infections - but he CAN fight the infections because of the blessing of antibiotics. I'm sorry but I cannot agree that Christians should "separate" from medicines because they are man-made.
     
  14. Living4God21

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    I am not hear to argue with you guy's. I am simply presenting this information and you do with it what you wish. We will all be held accountable by God someday for the things done in the flesh. The facts are the facts whether you may have researched them or not. I thank God for emergency medicine, but after being a medical student, I do not thank him for pharmaceutical companies.

    How safe are prescription drugs?

    In 1998 an extensive study published in the reputable Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) showed that 106,000 people die each year in American hospitals from medication side effects (4).

    Let's look at this statistic a different way: 106,000 deaths a year averages out to nearly 300 deaths per day, every day. Deaths from all major airline crashes in the U.S. average less than 300 annually, but 1 airplane crash gets more media attention and governmental scrutiny than the 300 medication-related deaths which occurred not only on the same day as the airline crash, but also every day before and after for decades.

    Why has this epidemic of side effects gone unrecognized? Deaths from medication reactions rarely look any different from natural deaths. There's no visible wreckage to videotape, no crash sites to fascinate and horrify TV viewers. As media people say, 'No film, no story'. Media and public relations firms, and how they shape the public's awareness, are discussed in more detail here.

    Medication deaths often occur quietly in hospitals, emergency rooms and private homes. When medication-related deaths occur, it's often unclear at first whether the cause was the medication, the illness, or some other factor. In other words, to much of the media, there is nothing sexy about side effects.

    The reported adverse effects of drugs are only the tip of the iceberg....
    http://www.healingdaily.com/conditions/pharmaceutical-companies-2.htm

    Even though you credit modern medicine for your current health, I have no doubt that you could get the same if not better results with no side effects using natural herbs and vitamins with a healthy diet. Oh, and by the way we are told by Paul to, 1Th 5:21 "Prove (test) all things; hold fast that which is good.
    1Th 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

    So yes, we are hear primarily to preach the Gospel and disciple the saved but we are also here to expose evil and warn others about it and its danger.
     
  15. Living4God21

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    abcgrad,

    I forgot to mention that the KJV clearly talks about believers getting involved with politics, for example King David, King Solomon, Samuel, etc. We must examine the Bible in its entire context not just the parts we think are important. Also, as I stated earlier, Merck and Co. as well as Pfizer Pharmaceutical industries did not exist during Jesus' time. Things are different now and we are warned clearly in Scripture that things would become more apostate in nature. Also please read:

    2Ch 16:12 And Asa in the thirty and ninth year of his reign was diseased in his feet, until his disease was exceeding great: yet in his disease he sought not to the LORD, but to the physicians.

    Mar 5:25 And a certain woman, which had an issue of blood twelve years,
    Mar 5:26 And had suffered many things of many physicians, and had spent all that she had, and was nothing bettered, but rather grew worse,
     
  16. abcgrad94

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    Ah Living, this is a debate board. That's what we do here.:laugh:

    Yes, God used people like Kind David, Queen Esther, etc. I 'm not disputing that at all. My issue is that Christ did not spend his time focusing on politics, so that should not be the main focus of ministry or how we as Christians identify ourselves. God's will is going to be accomplished no matter who is in office, no matter if we are at war or not, no matter if we are persecuted or not. That doesn't mean we should roll over and let evil prevail in our country, BUT political issues can easily distract us from our job as Christians. Denominational differences are usually based on scriptural interpretation, aren't they? Not on political party.

    It is also true that the woman with the issue of blood was not helped by the doctors she saw. Still, Christ did not rebuke her for going to the doctor. He did not rebuke the doctors, either. I think if she had sinned by seeking a doctor's help, the Lord would have mentioned it and told her to go and sin no more as he did the woman at the well.
     
  17. Salty

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    Maybe he didnt have time to get to that before getting banned:smilewinkgrin:
     
  18. Mexdeaf

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    I respect your right to be wrong on this issue.
     
  19. menageriekeeper

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    L4G21, are you 21 years old?

    If you are that make you one of our younger members. A lot of the folks you are talking to, are twice your age or more. We've been where you are. We've heard the arguments and we've rejected them.

    You are right, many times medicine does not cure, it simply relieves the symptoms. We'll talk about me. I have a form of Rhuematoid arthritis. I've suffered pain from it since I was a child. (back when they tried to tell me I had growing pains) There are times when the pain interferes with my daily life. I have four children, 4 dogs, 3 cats, an assortment of small animals and a husband. Are you going to tell me that taking a muscle relaxer and an anti-inflamatory in order to get up out of bed and take care of my responsibilities is sinful?

    I'm not going to be "cured". My body is attacking itself. "Natural cures?" LOL, I've tried them. Might as well have swallowed air.

    Now, if I was taking the meds for no reason except I liked the high they gave me, then you can talk to me about sin. About soiling my temple. Until then, well, you aren't my judge and my Judge has a merciful heart. Even if taking perscription meds were a sin, which you can't prove scripturally, my sins are forgiven.

    Christ said His burdens were light and His yoke easy. Why do you seek to make them heavy and hard?
     
  20. rbell

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    Oh, good grief.


    Oh well...if I take anti-inflammatory drugs for my grade 3 spodylolisthesis, (administered to me by a nurse who at some time in the last month actually wore pants), while listening to Christian rock and reading my NIV, will I be oppressed by all the demons of heck, and tormented by stan, the prince of insufficient light?



    :rolleyes:
     

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