Would you fellowship with a Seventh Day Adventist Family?

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Ben W, Feb 8, 2003.

  1. Ben W

    Ben W
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    The Seventh Day Adventist church are one of the most progressive churches in overseas missions. Yet the church in general seems to have a problem with embracing them. I determine two things about them. One is some people involved seem to rely heavily on the teachings of Ellen White, who made up a doctrine about Jesus beginning judgement in 1844 (instagative judgement doctrine) Secondly they seem a little law based in the O/T, no Pork, Saturday only etc. Yet they are also a Trinitarian Evangelical church seeking to bring the masses to Christ.

    So are they in with you or are they out? would you fellowship with a Seventh Day Adventist Family?
     
  2. CatholicConvert

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    I voted no.

    Fellowship indicates a sharing of commonly held religious experience/beliefs. That we simply do not have.

    Have them as friends. Certainly. Even invite them over for dinner.

    Fellowship, in the Christian sense of the word?

    Sorry, can't be done because it doesn't exist. We'd git as far as mentioning Jesus and then the fur would start to fly!

    Brother Ed
     
  3. Singer

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    Hey Convert:
    I voted "No" also and I'd have to vote the same if the
    question concerned the Catholic Church. It's that
    fellowship thing like you mentioned...and the fur...YES !!

    Did enjoy your picture though. We could pass for brothers;
    beard and all. I'd pose with Jesus though instead; he has
    a beard ya know [​IMG]
     
  4. CatholicConvert

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    I'm the world's oldest altar boy.

    I understand. We have a very different view of Who Jesus is and how He relates to us in the world.

    Still......fellowship aside, I'd be glad to buy you a cup o joe next time you pass through Harrisburg.

    Cordially in Christ,

    Brother Ed -- with thanks to Carson for the picture.
     
  5. hrhema

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    I voted no. there is a post created by a 7th day Adventist about Hell.

    You can prove to these people that Ellen G. White was an individual not worth trusting and they will call you slanderous etc.

    THey present a gospel that is not the real gospel. Paul said they are accursed.
     
  6. Singer

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    Hey Bro Ed:

    I'd drink the coffee with ya and fellowship the same Jesus.
    We're just a little off course on the worship service...not the MAN !
    Kinda like the Adventists are glued to a certain day.

    The kingdom of God is within us Ed...Luke 17:21...We have the same
    access to salvation. I just stay at home and worship within and
    others choose to fight the traffic. Which reminds me...lets have the
    coffee on the banks of the Missouri River where the deer and the
    antelope play... YOUR TRAFFIC IS SCARY

    Hey I've got 7 months on ya, Kid [​IMG]
     
  7. Carson Weber

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    I voted "yes" because Seventh Day Adventists are Christians, even if they have adopted various heresies.

    Now, "fellowship" is a very broad and general term; it needs to be defined. Would I share the Eucharist with them? Of course not. Neither would I with Eastern Orthodox or Baptists.

    Would I pray with them and work in an apostolate with them - in that sense of fellowship? Yes!
     
  8. hrhema

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    I used to fellowship with 7th day adventists but they don't want to have friendly discussions and the time spent ends up in a debate and usually they lose their cool and get nasty and ugly.
     
  9. rsr

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    Carson is right to ask what "fellowship" means in this context. What do you mean?
     
  10. Jim1999

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    Fellowship in its broadest sense is companionship, friendliness, mutual participation and sharing community of interest.

    In this sense, I can fellowship with anyone who shares the Lord Jesus Christ, and this would includes Roman Catholics, Seventh Day Adventist and others of like mind.

    We don't always have to agree on all doctrines to enjoy each other's company, and neither do we have to seek conversion on their part.

    When Martin wrote his book on cults, and in the fifties, he was the most authoritative writer on cults, he had great difficulty when it came to Seventh Day Adventist. It primarily had to do with the importance placed on the writings of Ellen G. White....this excert from the official statement on the Seventh Day Adventist site:

    17. The Gift of Prophecy:
    One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction.

    Needless to say, he did not include them in his book, but did have a special chapter about them and their extra-biblical doctrines.

    It should also be noted that followers often go far beyond the original teachings and add to what was originally taught. In the Seventh Day case, they have revamped their original teachings and have moved much closer to the regular fundamental teachings of the Bible, In my opinion.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  11. Mike McK

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    Inasmuch as it would not require me to compromise on the essentials, yes.
     
  12. 3AngelsMom

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    I voted yes, based on my feelings BEFORE I became an Adventist.

    Every Seventh Day Adventist that I had ever encountered (one of which has been my mothers life long best friend) have been loving, caring, generous people, who Love the Lord with all of their heart, and have a sincere burden for other people.

    As obstinate as some people can be, my experience with Seventh Day Adventist Christians has been over all a pleasant and enjoyable experience.

    If I based it on my current affiliation, that would be kind of biased!

    Fellowship with other believers is something that we are Commanded not to forsake. If you judge someone based on the sign that is in the grass in front of their Church building, then you are not having a Christ like mind.

    The Gospel that brings you to the Saving knowledge of Jesus is what is preached by the Seventh Day Adventist Church. It is this Gospel, that Paul spoke of when he warned of a false gospel when he said that if anyone comes with ANOTHER Gospel, let them be accursed.

    It is that FALSE Gospel that would bring someone that status.

    This is the Gospel I believe in:

    Romans 1:16. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
    17. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

    Romans 3:22. Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
    23. For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
    24. Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

    Romans 5: 1. Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
    2. By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

    Romans 16:25. Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
    26. But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

    Galatians 2:16. Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

    Ephesians 2: 8. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    9. Not of works, lest any man should boast.
    10. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

    Ephesians 4: 4. There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
    5. One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
    6. One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
    7. But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
    1 Timothy 1: 8. But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
    9. Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
    10. For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
    11. According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
    12. And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;
    13. Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
    14. And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
    15. This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
    16. Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
    17. Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

    2 Timothy 3:14. But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
    15. And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
    16. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
    17. That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

    Hebrews 12: 1. Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
    2. Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

    James 2:17. Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
    18. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
    19. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
    20. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
    21. Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
    22. Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
    23. And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
    24. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
    25. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
    26. For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

    2 Peter 1: 4. Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
    5. And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
    6. And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
    7. And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
    8. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
    9. But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
    10. Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

    1 John 1: 1. That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
    2. (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
    3. That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
    4. And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
    5. This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
    6. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
    7. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
    8. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
    9. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
    10. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

    1 John 5: 1. Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
    2. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
    3. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
    4. For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
    5. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
    6. This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
    7. For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
    8. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
    9. If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
    10. He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
    11. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
    12. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
    13. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
    14. And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
    15. And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
    16. If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
    17. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
    18. We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
    19. And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
    20. And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
    21. Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

    Hebrews 13: 8. Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

    The only people who I get ugly and nasty with are the ones who start a conversation with me that is ugly and nasty.

    Carson can attest, and others as well, that those of you who have enough self respect and Christian charity to have a decent doctrinal debate with me have had just that, a decent doctrinal debate.

    I will not cower to crude and judgmental comments. If you want to sling mud, you better not come in here thinking that your white washed shirt is dirt proof.

    If anyone has any questions pertaining to the doctrines held by the Seventh Day Adventist church feel free to PM me or start a thread. I will do my best to answer any questions you have.

    God Bless!
     
  13. Ben W

    Ben W
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    Fellowship in my mind is friendship, and sharing faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.

    People assume that all Seventh Day Adventists blindly follow Ellen White. This is not the case. Naturally they were founded on a great dissapointment of Christ not returning when people thought He would, Ellen White gave a prophecy to them about Christ beginning judgement which I dont agree with. But it is apparent to me that the role of Ellen White in the church is one of a founder.

    The fact is that they are the fastest growing church in missions. They have the same doctrine as us on the things that define us as Christians, Virgin Birth, Ressurection of Jesus, being born again, trinity. I think there is much to be gained by embracing them rather than treating them as a cult type group.
     
  14. 3AngelsMom

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    Brother Ed aka CatholicConvert:

    If we ever did fellowship together (and doubtless, we will one day in heaven).....

    I promise not to pull out any of your fur!

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Jim H.

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    I voted "yes". SDA's are orthodox in the fundamentals of the faith. Belief or the lack thereof in things like "soul sleep", "clean and unclean meats" do not make one a cult member. Romans 14:1-4 is a verse we Baptist like to hammer anyone with who tells us that we shouldn't eat pork, but we tend to forget it works both ways. Neither are we to judge someone who doesn't. Ditto for worshipping on a particular day.
    I was baptisted in a SDA church as a child of 13. When I got older and could think and study the Bible for myself, I rejected the unorthodox teachings of the SDA and became a Baptist. Note I did not say I became a Christian when I became a Baptist,I was already one.
    It's next to immpossible to put SDA's into a small box and say, "SDA's believe this or that about Ellen White." It varies. Some think her writings were inspired, other do not. The church I was in as a child did not stress her teachings. The church consisted mostly of older people, and there was some gentle, kind, God-fearing people a part of it.
    One thing I noticed as a child was that their legalism would occasionally trip them up. The church I was a part of was strictly vegitarian and forbid drinking anything with caffeine in it. But some of the members loved a good burger with a coke. When they got caught with "buger breath" by the pastor, it made for some embarrassing moments! I was young, but not so young that I didn't recognize hypocrasy when I saw it.
    But, yes, I can fellowship with SDA's, I just will not get into "doubtfull disputations" with them.
     
  16. BobRyan

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    I voted "yes" - but then I also fellowship with Catholics at mass, with southern Baptists and with some Evangelical Community Churches -- so my view may not count for much on that point.


    As for SDAs being trinitarian, and believing we are saved by grace through faith, and that the Bible is the infallible - authorotative - divine Word of God (the judge of all faith and doctrine)... and also believing in a literal Lake of Fire with literal torment of Real sinners in the REAL "presence of the Lamb and of his saints" Rev 14:10... that is all .true. They do believe it.

    They also belive that the Ten Commandments are not "Abolished" but that our faith "establishes the Law of God" Rom 3:31.

    There are a lot of Christians who believe that such an affirmation of God's Law is "bad" and that the Sovereign God prefers to see His own Law trampled in the name of grace. Hence they view acceptance of God's Ten Commandments and especially of His 7th-day memorial of Creation (made a holy day in Gen 2:3) as "legalism".

    It is interesting that Ben is SDB. That is "instructive" because the SDA's did not START out keeping Sabbath. They were celebrating the first day as "the Lord's Day" until a Seventh-day Baptist by the name of Rachael Oaks visited and encouraged them to accept God's Ten Commandments as "valid" for God's people.

    Had it not been for that Baptist sharing her faith so freely - the Seventh-Day Adventists today might simply be "Adventists".

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  17. 3AngelsMom

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    Ben,

    I too have often wondered why so many people call the SDA Movement a cult. We hold so many beliefs in common. We have the "common Salvation", and we believe in the same Baptism, and we serve the same LORD.

    Does it really matter if we think we are going to sleep? Is that what makes someone a Christian? Having the right state of the dead doctrines?
    Does it change the fact that our Salvation is based soley on Grace just because we try to obey? Is the Grace of God so weak that if we even TRY to obey God, it cancels it out?

    I sure hope not. Because if WE are right, and everyone else is wrong, it sure will be lonely in heaven. (and vice versa)

    Thank God that it is SOOO much more than that! Praise God that the redemptive power of the Blood of Jesus can not only cover all sin, but can cover also the ignorance and obstinance of man!

    Your Sister in Christ,
    3AM
     
  18. Ben W

    Ben W
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    With you all the way Mate [​IMG]
     
  19. Singer

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    Thanks Jim H. for this quote:

    "Romans 14:1-4 is a verse we Baptist like to hammer anyone with
    who tells us that we shouldn't eat pork, but we tend to forget it
    works both ways. Neither are we to judge someone who doesn't.
    Ditto for worshipping on a particular day. "

    Still there is much ado about Sunday worshippers Worshipping the Sun
    in the SDA circles.

    In using your suggestions, it makes it easier for me to justify that I
    choose not to attend church and that I am as spiritual one day as the
    next. I have my assurance and stand on many of the same verses
    as 3 Angels Mom quoted...I just reject the Saturday Only thing.

    For you, 3 Angels Mom; with that in mind, could you then worship with
    Sunday keepers (as the day doesn't matter)...?
     
  20. BobRyan

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    Romans 14 states that "one man OBSERVES one day above another while another man OBSERVES EVERY day".

    The issue at hand in that case was the list of holy days handed down in the Bible to Christians - using the Bible that they had at that time.

    Lev 23 identifies that list of Holy Days.

    Some observed ALL of them - and others chose to Observe ONE ABOVE another.

    Paul argued that you could not condemn the one for selecting ONE of them ABOVE another - and you could not condemen the one who Observed Them ALL.

    He said nothing about abolishing the 10 commandments, or the 4th commandment, or "observing No day".

    Notice that "observing" in that case - meant setting the day aside as an entire day of worship - no work.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     

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