Would you leave

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Salty, Mar 31, 2010.

  1. Salty

    Salty
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    Tonight at Bible study, the subject came up of being totally faithful. The example was: Suppose you are at church and several masked gunmen came in. They told anyone who was not a true believer in Christ would allowed to leave. Otherwise, they would shoot anyone who was left (ie the "true" Christians)

    What would be your decision. Would you leave - if you were a "true" Christian? or would you stay and face death? Supposed your children were with you?


    Salty

    Think real hard before you answer.
     
  2. Magnetic Poles

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    It is a silly exercise. Letting yourself and your kids be shot to make a point is no virtue. It has no bearing on one's relationship to God.
     
  3. exscentric

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    I think in the early days those that offered to Caesar were outcasts to those that did not. Of course rushing them might be better for some that would be saved :)
     
  4. Cutter

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    I agree with MP. This has absolutely no bearing on one's true relationship with God. If a way of escape presents itself I believe one should take it, especially with the whole family involved. I seriously doubt the evil murderers that are in this world are interested in testing one's Christianity anyway.
    Now if, on the other hand, they held a gun to my head and asked me to deny Christ or blaspheme His Name, I would have to remain faithful to Him and refuse.
     
  5. matt wade

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    By walking out of the church in the OP scenario, aren't you effectively denying Christ? Isn't saying that you aren't a believer denying Christ?

    Either way, I'd walk out. Peter denied Christ three times and lived to have a pretty good ministry. I wouldn't mind being in his company.
     
  6. Cutter

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    Quite honestly, I think that walking out would be the prudent thing that Christ would have us to do. I would not believe that I was denying Him, on the other hand, I would be denying a bloodthirsty murderer the opportunity to shed blood.
     
  7. matt wade

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    Oh I agree that it is the prudent thing to do. I just don't see how you can make the distinction that one scenario (a gunman telling everyone that if they don't believe in Christ they can leave, and you leaving) and another scenario (a gunman putting a gun to your head and demanding that you deny Christ) are any different. In both cases you have to deny Christ and in both cases I believe it prudent to let the gunman hear whatever he wants to hear.
     
  8. Cutter

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    IMHO, my walking out would not be the same as my vocally denying Christ or blaspheming His Name. What do I care what the gunmen or anybody else thinks about my relationship with Christ and/or my wise decision to accept the escape route offered me? I will not answer to them.
     
  9. donnA

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    it's not denying Chirst to attempt escape from being murdered and prehaps your children too, otherwise we would never be allowed to do anything that would save our lives.
     
  10. matt wade

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    I don't agree with that. Peter denied Christ specifically to avoid being murdered or persecuted along with him. Jesus told Peter that he was going to deny him and he did. Peter went on to have a great ministry.

    I'm not saying that we should stick around and let some crazed gunman shoot us. Like I said, I'd leave. If a gunman held a gun to my head and said, "Are you a Christian? If you are I'm going to kill you!", I'd tell him I wasn't. I don't particularly want to die that way. I also understand that I would be denying Christ with my lips when I said that. Of couse, God knows my heart.
     
  11. preachinjesus

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    I make it a policy not to respond to ridiculous hypotheticals.
     
  12. Cutter

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    Too late. Looks as if you have broken your policy in responding stating your policy.:smilewinkgrin:
     
  13. donnA

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    I actually said he didn't know Jesus, this isn't a question, but instructions given.
     
  14. matt wade

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    Yes, and the instructions given are "If you are not a Christian you may leave. If you are a Christian you must stay and be murdered."

    I think it is perfectly reasonable to leave. I also believe that it is a form of denying Christ.
     
  15. Rippon

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    The situation was an actual event. I forget the particulars -- but the gunmen were Christians. They wanted to find out the other real Christians in the room. It happened in either a Communist or Muslim country.
     
  16. Benjamin

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    Eh, I'd walk out...but as Arnold says, "I'll be back!"
     
  17. Allan

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    Benjamin!!

    Of all the things to say... That was probably the funniest :laugh:
     
  18. Chessic

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    Depends on whether I had a gun in my car...

    Just kidding.

    I'm actually surprised at some of these answers. I'd stay inside, trusting Christ to either use my testimony for good, perhaps for any survivors or for the gunmen themselves, years down the road in the prison where they are confined, or for some seeker watching the evening news. If I had kids inside, I'd order them to leave.

    Either way, my life and soul are in the hands of Christ, not some violent gunmen.
     
  19. windcatcher

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    Seems I've heard this story also. (Could it have been Russia or China?) It happened somewhere where Christians were coming under persecution. Those who left could be counted on not to talk to the authorities to save those left behind because in doing so they'd reveal their own involvement in the underground church. Those who remained could be counted on by the gunmen not to reveal their (the gunman's) purpose in being there and to provide temporary cover for some operation in which they were about.

    =======
    I wouldn't 'normally' consider myself 'superstitious'..... but...... my dad always told me that it was 'foolish talk' to talk about what one would do or wouldn't do in hypothetical situations: I always found it to be that just as surely as I might boast of what I would or wouldn't do..... later, having forgotten my boast, something would present itself.... and almost, just as certainly as I had said I'd do one thing.... instead I'd do another.... then I'd remember later how I'd foolishly boasted. I really can't brag that this is a lesson I've yet learned as still I catch myself thinking so sure about something and later finding out I was wrong.
    =========
    There are some who would say that denial is equivalent to denying the faith. Is it or is it not? I think in such matters, one would hope to have guidance by the holy spirit and would do whatever is most pleasing to God in that circumstance. In the vignette given in the OP: how do you know the gunmen would let any escape if they have no qualms against killing? one only has 'their word' which may have no more honor than their threat? Another ambush could be waiting outside and this could be a ruse to divide and conquer.

    Regarding Peter's denial...... it took place before the crucifixion and before he was 'converted'. Although he was warned ahead of time, it was like the Lord was telling him that he already knew and was forgiven: Peter, however, was unable to understand this in that immediate time, and appropriately had remorse and repented and was made stronger by this experience of weakness.

    I remember the kids killed at Columbine.... and how some stood strong in the face of death. Their courage and faith amazes me: Instead of thinking too much of the what-ifs..... I just pray Lord you have my future in your hands and know what lies ahead. Whatever is in your will, keep me and prepare me to follow you, both now and then.
     
    #19 windcatcher, Apr 1, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 1, 2010
  20. Cutter

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    After having some time to think about this, I have changed my mind. I feel like walking out would be the same as denying Christ, therefore I would have to stay.
     

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